bruce@graffiti.UUCP (Bruce Jilek) (01/23/86)
This message has been posted to both net.legal and net.jobs. Sorry about that, but I think it belongs in both places. I would like to describe the plight of a friend of mine to you and ask for suggestions. There is a huge company that is currently hiring people in droves to be trained as Systems Engineers. They are accepting people without very long lists of credentials to fill the positions. This would appear to be a big break for a lot of people, and so these people are very eager to be hired. My friend is one of the many that were accepted. There were glowing stories at first from my friend about what a great opportunity this was, and what advancement it would bring in the future. But there were a couple of 'catches': 1) The employer told my friend that the training was worth $9000, and that if my friend quit within the first year, the company wanted to collect this amount in return. 2) The job would involve a lot of hard work, especially during the training period. 3) The job would bring with it a potential for relocation to any of the company's worldwide locations. 4) The pay was not competitive with equivalent positions at other companies since this company was taking raw recruits and training them at the company's expense. My friend decided that the benefits of getting training and experience outweighed the detriments above. My friend accepted the job. There was a lot of excitement during the interview phase, and my friend didn't read the fine print on the 20 page contract that was signed. After all the interview process had taken three days to get to a decision, and there were a lot of people lined up for the job. The company is huge. What could possibly go wrong with such a reputable firm. They are as respectable as General Motors itself. Surely everything is on the 'up-an-up'. Guess what? My friend is getting screwed blind. 1) The fine print on the contract states that you owe the $9000 for the first **two** years, not one. Not only that, but you owe the money whether you are let go or you quit. Not only that, but they do the computer work for the IRS, so there's no way to hide from them if you decide to skip out. Not only that, but you only get the first two weeks of training or so to decide you want to bail out. That's during the easy part. Not only that, but they get approximately three months of grunt work out of you before the training even begins. 2) The 'hard work' is more like slave labor that can only be described as detrimental to your health (mental and physical). You are required to be in class most of the day. They teach you JCL, COBOL, CICS, and Assembler all in a nine week period. You are expected to write 5 large COBOL programs in the first three weeks during your free time. These are *large* programs. These are *inexperienced* people. This is a *fast* pace. The instructors tell you that it is part of the job to pull all-nighters at the terminals. If you don't work all day, and all night and part of the next day on one of the programs, you will be let go. This is after the final chance to bail out without owing $9000. My friend is averaging three or four hours of sleep per night for the last eight or nine weeks. 3) My friend had to relocate to do the initail three months of grunt work. My friend had to relocate to do the nine weeks of training. My friend will have to relocate again for the actual job. The company won't tell you your final destination until three weeks before the training is up. That's well after the final decision to bail out without owing $9000. 4) The pay is based on your performance during training. The company calls them 'raises'. They are 'incentives'. This means that you must abuse yourself even more to do as well as possible to get an unpredictable rating. By the time salaries are being determined, morale is *low*. Everyone is very bitter. You can imagine what kind of salary is decided upon. No matter what they decide your final salary is, you must accept or you owe them $9000. You are to the point of telling them off, and your every move has been in a zombie state. Not only that, but there are fanatic restrictions on telling *anyone* your income, even your SPOUSE for God's sake! Even if you allow someone else to tell you what their salary is, the company may let you go (and of course you owe them $9000). My friend decided to tell some fellow trainee's about the frustration. This was seven or eight weeks into the training. My friend wanted out. It wasn't until then until my friend found out that *everyone* wanted out. My friend was afraid to talk to anyone else until then. So was everyone else. It wasn't until then that my friend learned about the difference between what was said, and what was on the contract about the two year commitment. *EVERYONE ELSE HAD BEEN LIED TO ALSO!!!**** This situation appears to be breaking several laws to me: If a company isn't able to justify hiring you based upon the income you will bring, they shouldn't hire you. By putting a dollar commitment on you such as this one, it appears to be a form of indentured slavery. Especially when you consider the demands they place upon you, which brings me to the next illegal practice. Aren't there laws stating that an employer can't force an employee to work for more than forty hours a week without some form of mandatory overtime pay? Especially under such duress? Is it legal to withhold the job's final destination until after you have to accept a financial obligation like this one? By the way, the company delayed telling people their final destinations by several weeks. This of course messed up the ability to make a decision about staying or leaving. Isn't it illegal to lie to everyone you interview no matter what is on the employment contract? I can understand a mistake by an interviewer, but every person in my friend's class was told one year. Every person interviewed in different parts of the country, with different interviewers. Each person was told one year. Every contract reads two years in the fine print. I find it absolutely unbelievable that a billion dollar corporation would pull such dirty tricks on so many people. And what's more, this company wants these people that they have abused to work for them. The next time you get a statement from your bank, or credit union; the next time you give money to the IRS; the next time you buy a new GM automobile, you may want to ask "Who does the data processing for this company?". You might also want to double check that everything is as it should be. Because this company has a lot of very pissed off employees working for them, and they are handling your financial information and automobile safety in their angry hands, not to mention other things. I would love to see 20/20 or Sixty Minutes do a story on this, but my viewpoint is biased. I have a friend that's getting screwed. What do you care? You're only looking for a job!
schuler@gondor.UUCP (David W. Schuler) (01/26/86)
Is this company EDS ??????????????????????????????
sjm@dayton.UUCP (Steven J. McDowall) (01/26/86)
It sounds like EDS to me. Do they have to shave their beards, and wear blue suits, with white shirts? Hmm.. If you are an executive of the company (read salaried employee) then the 40 hours/week is not a maximum at all. I have worked 50-60 hours/week to get systems up in time with no expected compensation. "Tis part of the job" as it were. It might also be that the rule is actually dependent by state, I am not sure. -- Steven J. McDowall Dayton-Hudson Dept. Store. Co. UUCP: ihnp4!rosevax!dayton!sjm 700 on the Mall ATT: 1 612 375 2816 Mpls, Mn. 55408
stiber@ucla-cs.UUCP (01/27/86)
First of all, I find these allegations hard to believe. Assuming
they are true, here's my opinion (based on some recent job-hunting,
and a business law class).
The most important point is that your friend doesn't owe the
company a cent. The courts ruled a long time ago that companies can't
collect on training costs, in most cases. And, anyway, the company
would have to sue your friend, and that would certainly cost more than
$9000.
As far as the verbal agreement between the recruiter and your
friend is concerned, anything said is superceded by the written
contract that he signed. However, if all applicant were lied to, and
this can be proven, then the employees might have a fraud case.
Finally, just who is this company? Was this all just made up?
From your hints, one might assume that the company is EDS. If this is
not true, it would be better to say so. To me, it sounds like you are
describing the Moonies.
Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, a law student, or in any other way
associated with the law. Etc., etc.dwl10@amdahl.UUCP (Dave Lowrey) (01/27/86)
I know a person who took a job that a Headhunters found for them. They
left this job before a year was up. The company they worked for tried to
get them to re-imberse them the headhunter's fees (this was in their contracts)
. They took the company to court, and won. The ruling was based on
the fact that the individual's freedoms were being un-fairly restricted.
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Dave Lowrey
"To vacillate or not to vacillate, that is the question....
....or is it?"
...!{ihnp4,cbosgd,hplabs}!amdahl!dwl10
[ The opinions expressed <may> be those of the author and not necessarily
those of his most eminent employer. ]miller@loral.UUCP (David P. Miller) (01/28/86)
If this company is not EDS, then it sure sounds like Burroughs to me !!. BIG DAVE. -- David P. Miller - Loral Instrumentation. sdcsvax!sdcc3!sdcc6!loral!miller ******************************************************************************** "Sticks and stones may hurt my bones but words ......................."
bobn@bmcg.UUCP (Bob Nebert) (01/29/86)
> If this company is not EDS, then it sure sounds like Burroughs to me !!. > > BIG DAVE. > > -- > > David P. Miller - Loral Instrumentation. > sdcsvax!sdcc3!sdcc6!loral!miller > ******************************************************************************** > "Sticks and stones may hurt my bones but words ......................." On what do you make your assumption? I've been working at Burroughs for over a year now and have noticed nothing but a positive, highly professional attitude here. I have never been required to sign ANY papers saying I will pay Burroughs money for any reason. Currently I am enrolled in college to get another degree and Burroughs is paying a large chunk of the cost, NO STRINGS ATTACHED. Next time you make a blanket statement like the one above, big dave, use your big head instead of your big mouth. Bob Nebert sdcsvax!bmcg!bobn
rjd@faron.UUCP (Robert DeBenedictis) (01/30/86)
In article <1009@loral.UUCP> miller@loral.UUCP (David P. Miller) writes: >If this company is not EDS, then it sure sounds like Burroughs to me !!. > > BIG DAVE. > I would really like to know a few things. First, what company did the orignal posting refer to? Second, is EDS really as bad as all that? Third, is Burroughs? I'm a senior graduating from MIT this year and I have two interviews scheduled this week with -- you guessed it -- EDS and Burroughs. I'd appreciate comments from people who know what it's like to work for these companies. Please mail to me unless you think it's of general interest, in which case you should go ahead and post your reply.
scottp@tekig4.UUCP (Scott Phillips) (01/30/86)
> This message has been posted to both net.legal and net.jobs. > Sorry about that, but I think it belongs in both places. > <many lines of explanation of the situation> <deleted for the faint of heart> > > Aren't there laws stating that an employer can't force > an employee to work for more than forty hours a week without > some form of mandatory overtime pay? Especially under > such duress? > > Is it legal to withhold the job's final destination until > after you have to accept a financial obligation like this > one? By the way, the company delayed telling people their > final destinations by several weeks. This of course messed > up the ability to make a decision about staying or leaving. > > Isn't it illegal to lie to everyone you interview no matter > what is on the employment contract? I can understand a > mistake by an interviewer, but every person in my friend's > class was told one year. Every person interviewed in different > parts of the country, with different interviewers. Each > person was told one year. Every contract reads two years > in the fine print. > <some very qualifiable commentary> *** REPLACE THIS MESS WITH YOUR LINEAGE *** Have you ever heard of the United States Army? 40 hours is hardly what they expect (although one might argue that the army is 0 hours of work and all the other hours of putting up with ********). The army does not require your knowledge to send you somewhere. Also, if you have ever heard an army recruiter (no, not all recruiters, just the ones I was dumb enough to listen to), you know that verbal lies dont bother the conscience of them as long as they get their quota. And they are telling them to primarily young (age 17-19) folks (cant get much less experienced than that). It's not that I'm against the army, I just enjoy drawing the analogy. What's worse is that you (and I) are paying for them to do this. Oh well.......
dave@ur-helheim.UUCP (David F. Carlson) (01/30/86)
In article <108@graffiti.UUCP> bruce@graffiti.UUCP (Bruce Jilek) writes: > *EVERYONE ELSE HAD BEEN LIED TO ALSO!!!**** > >next time you give money to the IRS; the next time you buy a new >GM automobile, >What do you care? You're only looking for a job! If you were trying not to say EDS, you made it pretty clear. *Everyone* has a EDS horror story. Question is why do people still think they're worth even interviewing with? But, then again, people know that the military is pretty raw (18 hour shifts, muddy foxholes, etc.) and that recruiters stretch the truth (golf courses on base, adventure at Ft. Dix, etc.) and yet record amounts of service man are enlisting and re-upping. Why? Who knows. But EDS is using a very similar technique indeed, and they are not doing badly at it. (There's a sucker born every minute.) Not for me, thanks. -- "The Faster I Go the Behinder I Get" --Lewis Carroll Dave Carlson {allegra,seismo,decvax}!rochester!ur-valhalla!dave
rjd@faron.UUCP (Robert DeBenedictis) (01/30/86)
In article <452@faron.UUCP> rjd@faron.UUCP (Robert DeBenedictis) writes: >In article <1009@loral.UUCP> miller@loral.UUCP (David P. Miller) writes: >>If this company is not EDS, then it sure sounds like Burroughs to me !!. >> >> BIG DAVE. >> > >I would really like to know a few things. First, what company did the >orignal posting refer to? Second, is EDS really as bad as all that? Third, >is Burroughs? > To answer my own question, it IS EDS! I had an interview with them this morning. I can't confirm anything about having to work long hours, but they told me that when I accepted the job I would have to sign a promisary note saying I would either work for 3 years after I completed their training or else pay them $9000. (There were some other details like if you work a year and then quit you only pay $6000, etc.) Does anyone know what it's like to work for them?
mpr@mb2c.UUCP (Mark Reina) (01/31/86)
>>If this company is not EDS, then it sure sounds like Burroughs to me !!. >> >> BIG DAVE. For all those interested netters, we do quite a lot of business with Burroughs and consequently know many of their people (employees), I have never heard a bad word about working for Burroughs (with the one customary exception: Last year Burroughs involuntarily retired a few thousand employees; I am sure that these people may have some negative comments about Burroughs; after all some of them were given no notice of the situation.) Mark Reina
ark@alice.UucP (Andrew Koenig) (01/31/86)
> Have you ever heard of the United States Army? 40 hours is hardly what > they expect (although one might argue that the army is 0 hours of work > and all the other hours of putting up with ********). The army does not > require your knowledge to send you somewhere. Also, if you have ever heard > an army recruiter (no, not all recruiters, just the ones I was dumb enough > to listen to), you know that verbal lies dont bother the conscience of them > as long as they get their quota. And they are telling them to primarily > young (age 17-19) folks (cant get much less experienced than that). It's > not that I'm against the army, I just enjoy drawing the analogy. What's worse > is that you (and I) are paying for them to do this. Oh well....... I've now forgotten where I heard it, but someone recently made the clever remark that "you know the government has gotten out of hand when they start doing things that are illegal for private citizens to do."
rcj@burl.UUCP (Curtis Jackson) (01/31/86)
In article <454@faron.UUCP> rjd@faron.UUCP (Robert DeBenedictis) writes: >To answer my own question, it IS EDS! > >I had an interview with them this morning. I can't confirm anything about >having to work long hours, but they told me that when I accepted the job I >would have to sign a promisary note saying I would either work for 3 years >after I completed their training or else pay them $9000. (There were some >other details like if you work a year and then quit you only pay $6000, etc.) > >Does anyone know what it's like to work for them? > With that kind of attitude on their part, why should you care? Come to work for AT&T; they are [spelled: have been for me] great! I've even worked hand- in-hand with lots of famous people at (drum roll, please), Bell Laboratories!! They're real people too, you know, but don't tell anyone... BTW, the above is *not* sarcasm -- I have been very satisfied at AT&T and for myself would never consider working for a company with restrictions like the above. -- The MAD Programmer -- 919-228-3313 (Cornet 291) alias: Curtis Jackson ...![ ihnp4 ulysses cbosgd mgnetp ]!burl!rcj ...![ ihnp4 cbosgd akgua masscomp ]!clyde!rcj
jay@imagen.UUCP (Jay Jaeckel) (02/02/86)
> In article <454@faron.UUCP> rjd@faron.UUCP (Robert DeBenedictis) writes: > >To answer my own question, it IS EDS! > > > >I had an interview with them this morning. I can't confirm anything about > >having to work long hours, but they told me that when I accepted the job I > >would have to sign a promisary note saying I would either work for 3 years > >after I completed their training or else pay them $9000. (There were some > >other details like if you work a year and then quit you only pay $6000, etc.) > > Among the many replies to the original posting on this topic, no one has yet addressed the original question: Is this company doing something illegal? Of course, only a lawyer or worker at some regulatory agency of appropriate jurisdiction would be able to answer that properly. The best answer anyone else could give would be to advise the employee (or the person who posted the question on the employee's behalf) to see a lawyer or regulatory agency. It sure sounds like those employees are getting good and scrod, judging from the original posting. Would such activity fall under some Federal labor laws, or under some State laws? Regardless of what other details discussed there are or aren't legal, I can't imagine that $9000 pay-back part being legal or enforceable! That employee should see a lawyer (as much as I hate recommend anyone patronizing a lawyer!) or a regulatory agent (same comment!), and FAST. I am not a laywer or regulatory agent, and not sorry of it. -- J.J. ...{ucbvax,decwrl}!imagen!jay Disclaimer: The usual . . .
noemi@moscom.UUCP (Noemi Berry) (02/03/86)
>> *EVERYONE ELSE HAD BEEN LIED TO ALSO!!!**** >If you were trying not to say EDS, you made it pretty clear. *Everyone* >has an EDS horror story. Question is why do people still think they're >worth even interviewing with? But, then again, people know that the >military is pretty raw (18 hour shifts, muddy foxholes, etc.) and that >recruiters stretch the truth (golf courses on base, adventure at Ft. Dix, >etc.) and yet record amounts of service man are enlisting and re-upping. Yes, but you said the key thing there: people KNOW what the military is all about, but young, ambitious potential computer professionals with no job experience and eager to get training might NOT know the company's horrendous track record, nor expect to be treated as a boot camp cadet in an expected corporate environment. EDS paints a tough-but-you're-better-for-it picture for young recruits - I think it is important for people like the original poster's friend to know what REALLY goes on there. I hope this goes to 60 minutes, or through other media channels, for people to become more aware of the atrocious - and possibly illegal - working conditions there. ----------------- Noemi Berry {allegra|decvax|seismo}!rochester [!ritcv]!moscom!noemi ----------------- (I hope I only posted to net.legal - I tried to, in any case, since I have a feeling avid net.jobbers are going to start flaming about inappropriate newsgroup postings.) (Although net.jobbers should be well-warned about EDS!!!)
miller@nlm-mcs.ARPA (Nancy Miller) (02/03/86)
> To answer my own question, it IS EDS! > > I had an interview with them this morning. I can't confirm anything about > having to work long hours, but they told me that when I accepted the job I > would have to sign a promisary note saying I would either work for 3 years > after I completed their training or else pay them $9000. (There were some > other details like if you work a year and then quit you only pay $6000, etc.) > > Does anyone know what it's like to work for them? The scuttlebut in Detroit is that you do not want to get involved with them. (Detroit = the Motor City = headquarters of GM, who just bought EDS and is combining their data processing operations with EDS's). No, I haven't personally worked for EDS, but I do have a reliable source. In light of what has already been posted here, I don't think you need the details. I don't know if anyone is willing to go on the record about it, since it would mean their livelihood, at least for a time. -- ________________________________________________________________________________ __ __ <> <> | `-' Nancy Miller (miller@nlm-mcs.arpa)
miller@nlm-mcs.ARPA (Nancy Miller) (02/03/86)
> For all those interested netters, we do quite a lot of business with > Burroughs and consequently know many of their people (employees), > I have never heard a bad word about working for Burroughs (with > the one customary exception: Last year Burroughs involuntarily > retired a few thousand employees; I am sure that these people may > have some negative comments about Burroughs; after all some of them > were given no notice of the situation.) > Mark Reina Someone in that situation in LA that had worked at Burroughs for a while had previously told me how good they were to work for, was in that lay-off and got 10 weeks severance pay, which is not too shabby. They did give some of the employees a choice of moving to their new location (a ways down the coast). When I interviewed with Burroughs, they clearly stated that they would have new hires initially spend some time in the "trenches" doing trouble-shooting and systems programming, but that would be for one year and you could choose where to go from there. Although this wasn't the job for me, it does seem like a fairly decent place to work. -- ________________________________________________________________________________ __ __ <> <> | `-' Nancy Miller (miller@nlm-mcs.arpa)
billw@felix.UUCP (Bill Weinberger) (02/04/86)
In article <452@faron.UUCP> rjd@faron.UUCP (Robert DeBenedictis) writes: >In article <1009@loral.UUCP> miller@loral.UUCP (David P. Miller) writes: >>If this company is not EDS, then it sure sounds like Burroughs to me !!. >> >> BIG DAVE. >> > >I would really like to know a few things. First, what company did the >orignal posting refer to? Second, is EDS really as bad as all that? Third, >is Burroughs? > >I'm a senior graduating from MIT this year and I have two interviews >scheduled this week with -- you guessed it -- EDS and Burroughs. I'd >appreciate comments from people who know what it's like to work for these >companies. Please mail to me unless you think it's of general interest, in >which case you should go ahead and post your reply. No, Burroughs is not at all like that. I don't know why 'Big Dave' is maligning the company by including it in the same category as EDS. I just left Burroughs after 2.5 satisfactory years, and I can say that they are a pretty decent company to work for. The only reason I left was to join a smaller company doing more state-of-the-art work. Burroughs is very good to its employees as large companies go, both in terms of benefits (insurance, holidays, etc.) and trying to find satisfying work for them to do. I have heard a little about EDS and think this is the company the original poster may have been referring to. Other things I have heard about EDS include: no beards allowed on men, fairly strict dress code, etc. I, personally, would not want to work for a company like this (except I did work at Disneyland, but they had good reason for their rules). Regards, Bill Weinberger (billw@felix) [This is obviously only my opinion and does not necessarily reflect the opinions or policies of FileNet Corporation. etc. ]
jeff@gatech.CSNET (Jeff Lee) (02/07/86)
One company I know of requires all the employees that they (the company) have
to move to sign an agreement that they (the employee) will reimburse the company
for moving expenses if they leave within a year. Does it seem that this would
fall under the same category? The training would seem to be different since it
would be difficult (if not impossible) for the employee to provide his own
training while he has the option of providing his own moving expenses?
--
Jeff Lee
CSNet: Jeff @ GATech ARPA: Jeff%GATech.CSNet @ CSNet-Relay.ARPA
uucp: ...!{akgua,allegra,hplabs,ihnp4,linus,seismo,ulysses}!gatech!jeffmfidelma@bbncc5.UUCP (Miles Fidelman) (02/07/86)
Requiring reimbursement for moving expenses is pretty common. Somewhat less common, but also out there, are agreements where a company will pay for a graduate degree in return for a several year committment.
levy@ttrdc.UUCP (Daniel R. Levy) (02/09/86)
<Oh oh here it comes. Watch out boy, it'll chew you up! \ Oh oh here it comes. The LINE EATER! [Line eater]> In article <2617@gatech.CSNET>, jeff@gatech.CSNET (Jeff Lee) writes: >One company I know of requires all the employees that they (the company) have >to move to sign an agreement that they (the employee) will reimburse the company >for moving expenses if they leave within a year. Gould perhaps? (I spoke with them in college and their literature states this quite clearly.) Does it seem that this would >fall under the same category? The training would seem to be different since it ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >would be difficult (if not impossible) for the employee to provide his own ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >training while he has the option of providing his own moving expenses? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >-- >Jeff Lee Huh? Non sequitur. -- ------------------------------- Disclaimer: The views contained herein are | dan levy | yvel nad | my own and are not at all those of my em- | an engihacker @ | ployer or the administrator of any computer | at&t computer systems division | upon which I may hack. | skokie, illinois | -------------------------------- Path: ..!{akgua,homxb,ihnp4,ltuxa,mvuxa, vax135}!ttrdc!levy
dpw@rayssd.UUCP (Darryl P. Wagoner) (02/10/86)
> > One company I know of requires all the employees that they (the company) have > to move to sign an agreement that they (the employee) will reimburse the company > for moving expenses if they leave within a year. This is standard with most company that will move you. It is also silly to pay for such a move yourself. If you thinking that you won't stay with the company for the agree amount of time, let them pay for the move and put the money in the bank that you would have spent until you move or the period is over. This is not the same kind of thing at all. Most companys you will only have to reimburse them if you quit, while a few also required reimbursement if they fire you. I feel that this is more of a safeguard against you just coming to work and setting on you tail until the fire you. I think that most companys will move you within a site if you get in over your head instead of firing you. -- Darryl Wagoner Raytheon Co.; Portsmouth RI; (401)-847-8000 x4089 ...!decvax!brunix!rayssd!dpw ...!allegra!rayssd!dpw ...!linus!rayssd!dpw
stevens@Shasta.ARPA (02/10/86)
> > Requiring reimbursement for moving expenses is pretty common. Somewhat less > common, but also out there, are agreements where a company will pay for a > graduate degree in return for a several year committment. I may be wrong, but I believe that the Fourteenth amendment of the U.S. constitution protects individuals from having to honor contracts like this. This type of agreement is nothing more than indentured servitude. -- Greg Stevens, Computer Systems Laboratory, Stanford University {ucbvax,decvax}!decwrl!shasta!stevens, stevens@su-shasta.ARPA
asw@rlvd.UUCP (Antony Williams) (02/21/86)
In article <677@dayton.UUCP> sjm@dayton.UUCP (Steven J. McDowall) writes: >It sounds like EDS to me. Do they have to shave their beards, and >wear blue suits, with white shirts? reproduced without permission from Computer Weekly (UK) Feb 20 1986: "Computers and royalty met in Dallas on Tuesday when Prince Charles presented the Winston Churchill award to H. Ross Perot, head of services company Electronic Data Systems. The award is given to those who epitomise the bold spirit of the former British Prime Minister by the Winston Churchill Foundation." Is this the same EDS? Any comments? -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tony Williams |Informatics Division UK JANET: asw@uk.ac.rl.vd |Rutherford Appleton Lab Usenet: {... | mcvax}!ukc!rlvd!asw |Chilton, Didcot ARPAnet: asw%rl.vd@ucl-cs.arpa |Oxon OX11 0QX, UK
tracyw@islenet.UUCP (Tracy Walters) (02/23/86)
> > > > Requiring reimbursement for moving expenses is pretty common. Somewhat less > > common, but also out there, are agreements where a company will pay for a > > graduate degree in return for a several year committment. > > I may be wrong, but I believe that the Fourteenth amendment of the U.S. > constitution protects individuals from having to honor contracts like this. > This type of agreement is nothing more than indentured servitude. > > > -- > Greg Stevens, Computer Systems Laboratory, Stanford University > {ucbvax,decvax}!decwrl!shasta!stevens, stevens@su-shasta.ARPA microwave and satcomm equipment? I am leaving the service in OCT, and ccess based on an SBI. Thanks much. Tracy Walters Tracyw @ Islenet, Inc., Honolulu, HI. {dual,vortex,ihnp4}!islenet!tracyw U.S. Snail: 863B Palm Ave. Pearl City, HI 96782 (808)455-2380 or 455-8707
afb@pucc-i (Michael Lewis) (03/04/86)
In article <1118@rlvd.UUCP>, asw@rlvd.UUCP writes: > In article <677@dayton.UUCP> sjm@dayton.UUCP (Steven J. McDowall) writes: > >It sounds like EDS to me. Do they have to shave their beards, and > >wear blue suits, with white shirts? > > Is this the same EDS? Any comments? > -- > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Tony Williams |Informatics Division > UK JANET: asw@uk.ac.rl.vd |Rutherford Appleton Lab > Usenet: {... | mcvax}!ukc!rlvd!asw |Chilton, Didcot > ARPAnet: asw%rl.vd@ucl-cs.arpa |Oxon OX11 0QX, UK That's the one.