ludo@sq.uucp (Ludo VanVooren) (11/27/88)
In article <8811252311.AA05323@wilson.csri.toronto.edu> hofbauer@csri.toronto.edu (John Hofbauer) writes : >...You must go to Europe or Japan to see how a real transit system >works. I disagree. I am French and I know the transit systems of most of the big European Cities. It is not better than the TTC. I moved to Toronto last April and I found that the TTC had a lot of good things : 1. Subway, Bus and Streetcar are in the same system. The direct connection between the subway and the bus/streetcar is a very good idea. For example, in Paris, some bus stops are shared by 10 or 12 different bus lines. You have to first find the bus stop (often far away from the subway station) and then figure out what bus you should take. Don't expect to have any clean separation and good information about the busses. 2. TTC subway stations are compact and well serviced by escalators. I know that they don't always work but at least you see people trying to fix them. In Brussels they have an average of 50% of their escalator working. I lived for two years in Brussels and there is one escalator I *never* saw working. In Paris, when you change subway lines, you may have to walk *miles* (I am not kidding, the longest connection is over 2 km) and go up and down in a real maze. There are people that get lost in those long corridors. 3. TTC is safe. You don't have to watch your back when you walk past midnight in a subway station. The number of *murders* in the European subways is just incredible. (I don't know if you realize that there was ***only*** 46 murders in Toronto this year (so far, thanks god!). You shoul check the criminal records of the subway in Paris. I bet you the number of murders is bigger.) 4. Last but not the less, TTC is very clean. I am not use to ride a subway that as no giant grafiti on every single wall. 5. I have never been to Japan but have you ever read about the subway employees pushing the crowd into the subway cars at rush hours ? TTC is not perfect, OK! But it is not that bad ! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ludo Van Vooren SoftQuad Inc., Toronto (416)963-8337 UUCP : sq!ludo -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
price@white.toronto.edu (Blaine A. Price) (11/28/88)
In article <1988Nov27.120631.4151@sq.uucp> ludo@sq.com (Ludo VanVooren) writes: > >In article <8811252311.AA05323@wilson.csri.toronto.edu> >hofbauer@csri.toronto.edu (John Hofbauer) writes : > >>...You must go to Europe or Japan to see how a real transit system >>works. > >I disagree. I am French and I know the transit systems of most of the big >European Cities. It is not better than the TTC. I have to agree with Ludo. I spent last summer using the public transportation systems in most of the major cities in Eastern and Western Europe, and overall the TTC wins in most categories. Munich is probably the only city that embarrasses Toronto in terms of public transit since it has a fraction of the population and the entire city is honeycombed with a fast, clean, efficient U-Bahn (subway). I think that the TTC loses in terms of understandability for non-English speakers, but it certainly allows you get closer to an arbitrary x,y coordinate in the city than most of the European systems. It is definately cleaner than all but the German system and the cost is reasonable when compared with those in (North) Western Europe. As for Japan, I haven't been there either, but when you consider the population difference I don't think that there is a valid comparison. It's like comparing the TTC with Bramptom Transit. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Blaine Price (416) 978-5182 price@white.utoronto.ca Department of Computer Science price@white.toronto.edu Univ. of Toronto, Canada M5S 1A4 {allegra,linus,utzoo}!utcsri!price "If it can't be expressed in figures it is not science, it is opinion."
rob@array.UUCP (Rob Marchand) (12/02/88)
In article <1988Nov27.120631.4151@sq.uucp> ludo@sq.com (Ludo VanVooren) writes: > >In article <8811252311.AA05323@wilson.csri.toronto.edu> >hofbauer@csri.toronto.edu (John Hofbauer) writes : > >>...You must go to Europe or Japan to see how a real transit system >>works. I spent six weeks in Seoul at the end of summer and in the fall, and I spent a good deal of time using the transit system. As far as the subway system goes, I was impressed. It covers a lot of ground, and moves a *lot* of people. There are five (I think -- memory fading ;-) lines, which directly connect with the National Railway lines. As a result, I could take a subway from An-Yang (about 50 clicks outside of Seoul) to just about anywhere I had to go within the city. >1. Subway, Bus and Streetcar are in the same system. The direct connection > between the subway and the bus/streetcar is a very good idea. For example, I agree with this wholeheartedly. In Seoul, finding the bus you wanted to board was *very* difficult. (Of course my Korean doesn't help much :-) This is one of the things I've liked about the transit service here. >2. TTC subway stations are compact and well serviced by escalators. I know > that they don't always work but at least you see people trying to fix them. No escalators in the Seoul transit system. Lots of stairs - and I mean lots. I've never seen so many stairs in a city in my life. >3. TTC is safe. You don't have to watch your back when you walk past midnight > in a subway station. The number of *murders* in the European subways is just The transit system in Seoul is also (apparently) quite safe. This is probably due in part to the volume of people that are always traveling on the system. > >4. Last but not the less, TTC is very clean. I am not use to ride a subway that > as no giant grafiti on every single wall. > Seoul transit too; not as clean as the TTC mind you, but pretty good nonetheless. >5.I have never been to Japan but have you ever read about the subway employees > pushing the crowd into the subway cars at rush hours ? > Didn't see this in Seoul, but do know that getting a seat is a rare event. The subways, and some of the bus routes are incredibly crowded (oh yeah, everybody sleeps on the subway too). >TTC is not perfect, OK! But it is not that bad ! > I agree. There are some problems, but all in all, I think they've 'got a good thing going'. (Sorry 'bout that, it's early! ;-) -- Rob Marchand UUCP : {mnetor,utzoo}!lsuc!array!rob Array Systems Computing ARPA : rob%array.UUCP@uunet.UU.NET 200-5000 Dufferin Street Phone : +1(416)736-0900 Fax: (416)736-4715 Downsview, Ont CANADA M3H 5T5 Telex : 063666 (CNCP EOS TOR) .TO 21:ARY001