migod@csri.toronto.edu (Mike Godfrey) (01/24/89)
In some article, wagner@gpu.utcs.UUCP (Michael Wagner) writes: >I think suicides are often refered to as alleged suicides, since the >determination of suicide or not is a legal matter, having great influence >on things like life insurance benefits. Not to contradict, but rather to add fuel to the fire... My best friend from high school (whose father owns his own insurance company) told me that many insurance companies *will* pay up in the event of a suicide, provided that it occurs a "suitable" length of time after the original purchase of the policy (two or three years). Obviously there is a belief is that few people would plan to kill themselves two years in advance. -- Mike Godfrey Department of Computer Science "I am not a free man... University of Toronto but I'm reasonable!" #6. migod@csri.toronto.edu
clewis@ecicrl.UUCP (Chris Lewis) (01/26/89)
In article <8901241831.AA06838@carlton.csri.toronto.edu> migod@csri.toronto.edu (Mike Godfrey) writes: >In some article, wagner@gpu.utcs.UUCP (Michael Wagner) writes: >>I think suicides are often refered to as alleged suicides, since the >>determination of suicide or not is a legal matter, having great influence >>on things like life insurance benefits. >Not to contradict, but rather to add fuel to the fire... >My best friend from high school (whose father owns his own insurance company) >told me that many insurance companies *will* pay up in the event of a suicide, >provided that it occurs a "suitable" length of time after the original >purchase of the policy (two or three years). Actually, you're both right. Many life insurance policies explicitly exclude death/injury due to suicide, as a result of committing illegal acts, and sometimes as a result of mental derangement (lovely one to prove) &tc. On the other hand, some insurance policies don't. Someone we knew killed himself last year, and his company-paid policy *did* pay (triple salary too!). Policies differ. Eg: Some company policies are in force for 30-90 days after you leave a company, some terminate instantly. Someone else we knew died within a couple of weeks of early retiring, and the policy didn't cover him (same company as the suicide...). Alleged suicide is a convenient bit of legal jargon so that it can be discussed without explicitly asserting that it was a suicide. Eg: before an inquest, during police investigation, etc. etc. -- Chris Lewis, Markham, Ontario, Canada {uunet!attcan,utgpu,yunexus,utzoo}!lsuc!ecicrl!clewis Ferret Mailing list: ...!lsuc!gate!eci386!ferret-request (or lsuc!gate!eci386!clewis or lsuc!clewis)
laredo@csri.toronto.edu (Jim Alain Laredo) (01/26/89)
In article Message-ID: <373.1989Jan24.13:01:24@hammer.me.toronto.edu> hammer@me writes: >>In article <8901240935.AA01848@bloor.csri.toronto.edu> tjhorton@csri.toronto.edu (Tim Horton) writes: >> >>(You can jump from a bridge, or borrow a gun, or inject nasty stuff, or take >>up smoking... or pehaps simultaneously take up cocaine and riding racehorses >>and LSD at rock concerts and driving stolen cars very dangerously [sick, Tim]) >> >You don't understand. These people have such severe problems, they feel their >only recourse is to "end it all". I imagine them, not as chronically ill >cancer patients, who can no longer stand the pain, but as desperate, bitter >people. Who, if they're going to commit suicide, are going to do so with a >bang, "I'm going to kill myself, and I want the whole fucking world to know". >Their final (and likely only) moment of "glory". First of all, in most of the subway lines of the world there is the policy to keep silence about any attempt of suicide or death due to suicide, so people will be discouraged to try to kill themselves using a subway. Second, about forty per cent of the people that try to suicide on subway lines survive the impact of the train and end underneath the platform. The real purpose of this space under the platform is to protect a person that accidentally falls and doesn't have time to go up again. Anyway, this 40% either have a very slow and painful death or remain crippled for the rest of their life. So if you really want the whole f...... world to know be more creative, for example hang yourself from the CN-Tower, shoot yourself in Queen's Park, dive in the lake from Harbourfront, jump from First Canadian Place at rush hour, etc. For sure many people will notice you and probably you will appear in all the Newspapers and radio and tv stations. And most important, you will have a higher probability of success. A final point, in Japan, according to a friend, trying to avoid suicides in the subway, if a person kills himself, his family will have to pay for all the man-hours that were lost due to the fact. Jim Laredo
msb@sq.uucp (Mark Brader) (01/28/89)
> So if you really want the whole f...... world to know be more > creative, for example hang yourself from the CN-Tower ... > ... jump from First Canadian Place at rush hour While possible, these are rather nontrivial methods. You'd need an acetylene torch or the like to get through those horrible* anti-suicide bars at the CN Tower. And I bet the indoor levels have something less breakable than ordinary glass. As for First Canadian Place, it has no observation deck at all, and never has had; so you either break in (so to speak) to the roof, or first get into somebody's office somehow and then get through the window there. The subway method is quite trivial and I suspect this has a lot to do with its, um, popularity. The only method of really stopping subway suicides would seem to be the installation of a wall along the platform edge; the trains would then have to stop exactly at marked positions, and doors in the walls would open to match the train doors (i.e., like an elevator). There is actually one subway system where this was done (in Lille, France) -- but the reason they felt the need is that their trains are automatic, with no drivers. Of course, accidents are prevented as well as suicides. *Horrible in the sense that because there's no way to stand close to the bars you lose much of the feeling of being outdoors, and can't even take a decent picture through them. The Eiffel Tower does it much better, with a rectangular grid of wire like that used for chain link fences, so you can put your face or camera through the holes, and a parapet wall so you can't try to stand on the anti-suicide wires. A still better arrangement is at NYC's World Trade Center, where the outdoor observation walkway is quite open, but set above the roof itself and some way back from the edge. In between the walkway base and the roof edge, at a position where it doesn't obstruct your view, is an electric fence. Presumably potential jumpers aren't interested in breaking their ankles jumping to the roof and then trying to electrocute themselves. But this method isn't practical on a narrow tower like the CN or Eiffel Tower, because the viewing area shrinks too much. Mark Brader "Every new technology carries with it SoftQuad Inc., Toronto an opportunity to invent a new crime" utzoo!sq!msb, msb@sq.com -- Laurence A. Urgenson
paul@moore.UUCP (Paul Maclauchlan) (01/30/89)
In article <1989Jan27.180849.18666@sq.uucp>, msb@sq.uucp (Mark Brader) writes: > > > ... jump from First Canadian Place at rush hour > > As for First Canadian Place, it has no > observation deck at all, and never has had; so you either break in (so to > speak) to the roof, or first get into somebody's office somehow and then > get through the window there. > The windows don't open... honest! And please don't come to my office, I don't have a window. And since they built the Scotia Tower the view isn't so hot either... (from the 72nd floor...) -- .../Paul Maclauchlan Moore Corporation Limited, Toronto, Ontario (416) 364-2600 paul@moore.UUCP -or- ...!uunet!attcan!telly!moore!paul "...rolling like thunder, under the covers"/EJ&BT'83