wmartin@brl-tgr.ARPA (Will Martin ) (12/18/85)
I have gotten two ads in the mail so far for a product I find very strange. At first, I wondered if this was some kind of elaborate joke or hoax, but the product brochures are professionally done, utterly serious in tone, and seem to be completely legitimate. Yet, either I just have no concept of the engineering behind the product, or the thing really is completely incomprehensible. It is nothing much to look at -- a circuit in a multi-pin (round pin) package, and it is called the HSN-3000 High Speed Hybrid Nuclear Event Detector. The first brochure I got was titled "Certified Circumvention for Power Shutdown", and the second, largely similar, is titled, "Certified Circumvention for Processor Shutdown/Restart". The company making this is IRT Corporation, Electronic Systems Division, 3030 Callan Road, San Diego, CA 92121 (619) 450-4343, x 527. Their slogan is "The Experts in Nuclear Survivability". In short, this thing is supposed to "protect" your computer or other electronic doohickey in the event of a nuclear weapon detonation. I quote: "Mounted on your cicuit board, this 14-pin dual in-line package reliably detects the gamma pulse from a nuclear detonation and rapidly initiates those circumvention functions necessary to protect your electronics from damage and/or upset." [How nice. Your electronics won't be "upset". I wonder about their operators...] More quote: "Sensing the radiation pulse from a nuclear event, the HSN-3000 rapidly switches the nuclear event detection (NED) signal from its normally high state to low, allowing initiation of circumvention functions. The threshold adjust function allows for regulation of the trip threshold. The pulsewidth of NED is programmable from 100 microseconds to 10 milliseconds by adjustment of an external capacitor." Hmmm. It seems you can trim it so as to ignore small and/or distant nuclear explosions ["Gee, looka da purty fireworks on the horizon!"] and only trigger on "annoying" or nearby bursts... There are several more paragraphs of such technicalese, but no real examples of use or citations of "satisfied customers". Ahem. Aside from those cases in which your electronics are a puddle of slag by the time this device lets them know they have something to worry about, won't the EMP effects have completely destroyed the circuits this is "protecting" anyway? Or is this a valid product, maybe usable in military electronics or "hardened" sites? It just seems totally off-the-wall to me. Anybody know anything about these sorts of things and have comments or explanations to offer? Will Martin UUCP/USENET: seismo!brl-bmd!wmartin or ARPA/MILNET: wmartin@almsa-1.ARPA
jbs@mit-eddie.UUCP (Jeff Siegal) (12/19/85)
In article <799@brl-tgr.ARPA> wmartin@brl-tgr.ARPA (Will Martin ) writes: >Ahem. Aside from those cases in which your electronics are a puddle of >slag by the time this device lets them know they have something to worry >about, won't the EMP effects have completely destroyed the circuits this >is "protecting" anyway? Or is this a valid product, maybe usable in As I understand it, the EMP is strongly dependant on several factors including the type of nuclear device, and the altitude of detonation. In any case, it is not clear what the so called "circumvention procedures" being refered to are, so it could very likely be intended for military use. Also, if this is intended for military use, then broadcasting those operational (specifications pulsewidth detection range, etc.) around the world via Usenet might not be such a good idea. Jeff Siegal - MIT EECS ---- This may very well NOT be the opinion of my employer, but if you paid your employer $11,000/year, wouldn't you feel justified in mis-representing it's opinion? (-:
hollombe@ttidcc.UUCP (The Polymath) (12/19/85)
In article <799@brl-tgr.ARPA> wmartin@brl-tgr.ARPA (Will Martin ) writes: >making this is IRT Corporation, Electronic Systems Division, 3030 Callan >Road, San Diego, CA 92121 (619) 450-4343, x 527. Their slogan is "The >Experts in Nuclear Survivability".... > >In short, this thing is supposed to "protect" your computer or other >electronic doohickey in the event of a nuclear weapon detonation.... > > ... Anybody know anything about these sorts of things >and have comments or explanations to offer? What you have there is yet another variation on one of the oldest scams in the world. The basic idea is to offer a product with a guarantee that the customer can't possibly collect on when the product fails, often because they're dead or the company has long since gone out of business. (e.g.: "If this parachute fails to open return to manufacturer for a full refund."). Other variations abound. Ever bought a pair of socks with a 5 year warranty? When's the last time you kept a receipt for socks, or anything else, for 5 years? Then there was the "lucky marriage rock" scam. A woman buying one of these stones ($10) was guaranteed to be married within the year or get a full refund. Statistically, at the time, 50% of the women buying the rocks were likely to get married within the year anyway. Of the remaining 50% those few who bothered to claim the warranty were given refunds. (This pre-dated the pet rock by at least 10 years). I have little doubt there were similar scams selling cheap swords and luck tokens to gladiators in ancient Rome. -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe) Citicorp(+)TTI 3100 Ocean Park Blvd. Geniuses are people so lazy they Santa Monica, CA 90405 do everything right the first time. (213) 450-9111, ext. 2483 {philabs,randvax,trwrb,vortex}!ttidca!ttidcc!hollombe
jeffj@sfmin.UUCP (J.S.Jonas) (12/20/85)
> It is nothing much to look at -- a circuit in a multi-pin (round pin) > package, and it is called the HSN-3000 High Speed Hybrid Nuclear Event > Detector. The first brochure I got was titled "Certified Circumvention > for Power Shutdown", and the second, largely similar, is titled, I can check with an army engineer if anyone really cares, but when I got my brochure, I thought that it made sense. If the radiation isn't intense enough to melt the thing, or burn out the circuits with induced EMF, it will simply cause the circuits to malfunction during the irridiation period. During this period of unreliable operation, the data can be shoved into a 'safe' place, like a disk or shielded RAM. When the levels are low enough, operation can resume. It's sort of like people going into a bomb shelter. It works only if the bomb isn't too big (in which case it doesn't matter) or too small (in which case it isn't worth the effort since no damage will be sustained). Why no examples? Maybe it's secret and/or confidential! Or as my math teacher says "it's intuitively obvious!"! Radiation effecting circuit operation is not so uncommon. The newer chips with finer details are very prone to malfunction with beta or even alpha radiation. I heard that the early DRAMS (64k? 256k?) malfunctioned due to the radiation in the ceramic in the packages. The ceramic used today is substancially less radioactive. It never used to be a concern. Jeff 'it made sense at the time' Skot {ihnp4 | allegra | mcnc} attunix ! jeffj
karn@petrus.UUCP (Phil R. Karn) (12/21/85)
That device is for real; I saw it a few months ago in one of the electronics rags and got a real kick out of it. The theory is actually fairly sound. Many ICs, especially CMOS, have PNPN structures in many places. If you'll recall your semiconductor theory, a PNPN structure is what you need to make an SCR (Silicon Controlled Rectifier), a "switch" that when triggered by gate current, "latches on" until power is removed. Normally this is not a problem in ICs because there is no way to inject current into the "gate" section, but bursts of gamma radiation (e.g., from a nearby "nuclear event", a lovely euphemism!) can cause photoelectric avalanche effects which serve as the trigger. "Latchup" is not in itself destructive, since turning power off will restore proper functioning, but since the PNPN structure is usually formed across the power supply, the chip will fry. The "nuclear event detector" is supposed to cause power to be removed momentarily from the circuit to avoid latchup. All this, of course, assumes that the circuit (or its operator, if any) haven't already been vaporized. I would really like to see somebody do an "application note" for this chip, where high voltage Darlington drivers are used to light a neon sign that says "KISS YOUR ASS GOODBYE!" Naturally, fast rise-time transistors are necessary so that the sign can be illuminated before the whole circuit is vaporized. --Phil
heuring@boulder.UUCP (Vincent Heuring) (12/22/85)
Well, this subject brings up an almost 'racial fear' in most of us, and well it should, since any sort of nuclear exchange of any magnitude would bring and end to our life as we know it. Nevertheless, the subject must be thought about. Specifically, the "EMP" -i.e. electromagnetic pulse, from a *single* nuclear device exploded at high altitude over the middle of the US is estimated to be of sufficient magnitude *over the entire surface of the US* as to cause destruction of virtually every electronic device containing any integrated circuits. So we are in a position of extreme vulnerability versus the USSR vis-a-vis emp damage -- even due to a single detonated device. Remember, the USSR is still using large numbers of vacuum tube devices, whereas the US has cleverly imbedded ic's in damn near everything except the kitchen sink. Thus the concern for some kind of emp damage prevention device. Note: I am not in favor of nuclear war, "strategic exchanges", or other Strangeloveian activities.
dieter@zhmti.UUCP (Dieter H. Zebbedies) (12/22/85)
In article <799@brl-tgr.ARPA> wmartin@brl-tgr.ARPA (Will Martin ) writes: > At first, I wondered if this was some kind of elaborate joke >or hoax, but the product brochures are professionally done, utterly >serious in tone, and seem to be completely legitimate. >In short, this thing is supposed to "protect" your computer or other >electronic doohickey in the event of a nuclear weapon detonation. I >quote: "Mounted on your cicuit board, this 14-pin dual in-line package >reliably detects the gamma pulse from a nuclear detonation and rapidly >initiates those circumvention functions necessary to protect your >electronics from damage and/or upset." [How nice. Your electronics won't >be "upset". I wonder about their operators...] What gets me is that one of those 14 pins is a ``RESET'' line ! I too thought that this was a *real strange product*, but who am I to argue with the DoD types that want revenge even though they might not be there to enjoy it :-) -- Dieter H. Zebbedies ('dee-ter 'zeb-ed-eez) Zebb-Hoff Mach. Tool's Automated Manufacturing Project USnail: 9535 Clinton Rd, Cleveland, OH 44144 (+ 1 216 631 6100) UUCP: {decvax,sun,cbosgd}!cwruecmp!zhmti!dieter CSNET: dieter%zhmti.uucp@case.csnet ARPA: dieter%zhmti.uucp%case.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa
carl@aoa.UUCP (Carl Witthoft) (12/23/85)
In article <799@brl-tgr.ARPA> wmartin@brl-tgr.ARPA (Will Martin ) writes: >I have gotten two ads in the mail so far for a product I find very >strange. At first, I wondered if this was some kind of elaborate joke >or hoax, but the product brochures are professionally done, utterly >serious in tone, and seem to be completely legitimate. Yet, either I >just have no concept of the engineering behind the product, or the thing >really is completely incomprehensible. > >It is nothing much to look at -- a circuit in a multi-pin (round pin) >package, and it is called the HSN-3000 High Speed Hybrid Nuclear Event >Detector. The first brochure I got was titled "Certified Circumvention >for Power Shutdown", and the second, largely similar, is titled, >"Certified Circumvention for Processor Shutdown/Restart". The company No hoax. I developed just such a detector at company X a number of years ago for sale to a militrary computer company ( company Y ) . The device is basically just a big PIN diode which becomes conductive when hit by a pile of EMP radiation ( that's Electromagnetic Pulse for you non- warmongers), thus sending a warning signal. The device is generally ruined by this pulse, as the conductivity is created by barfing out the junction. In theory, this detector picksup the lead edge of the EMP and allows one to turn off the computers and memory before the main pulse can wipe all the memory clean. I have no idea how well it actually works. Darwin's Dad ( Carl Witthoft @ Adaptive Optics Associates) {decvax,linus,ihnp4,ima,wjh12,wanginst}!bbncca!aoa!carl 54 CambridgePark Drive, Cambridge,MA 02140 617-864-0201x356 "Selmer MarkVI, Otto Link 5*, and VanDoren Java Cut."
dave@cylixd.UUCP (Dave Kirby) (12/24/85)
In article <67@ttidcc.UUCP> hollombe@ttidcc.UUCP (The Polymath) writes: >What you have there is yet another variation on one of the oldest scams in >the world. The basic idea is to offer a product with a guarantee that the >customer can't possibly collect on when the product fails, often because >they're dead or the company has long since gone out of business. (e.g.: "If >this parachute fails to open return to manufacturer for a full refund."). > >Other variations abound. Ever bought a pair of socks with a 5 year >warranty? When's the last time you kept a receipt for socks, or anything >else, for 5 years? Then there was the "lucky marriage rock" scam. A woman >buying one of these stones ($10) was guaranteed to be married within the >year or get a full refund... Don't forget those caskets that are guaranteed for 20 years against deterioration. Now who has ever dug one up 20 years later to find out? My favourite scam was the "double-guarantee" that came with some diet pills a few years ago. If you were not completely satisfied, just write them and they would send you another month's supply ABSOLUTELY FREE! In other words, if they turn out to be garbage, just write and they'll send you more garbage at no extra charge. I'm starting my own insurance company, and I would like to broadcast my advertisement here. It's called "End-of-the-World" insurance. For only $300/month, you can get insurance that will pay you $10,000/month, paid DIRECTLY TO YOU, for the rest of your life, should the world come to an end. If you don't want insurance, I can also sell you a unique new product I have developed. You've heard of bullet-proof vests? Well, I've got the ultimate shield. Anti-nuke pills. You take one and it will protect you from the effects of a nuclear blast if you are within 200 miles of ground zero. If these pills should fail you at any time during a nuclear blast, just send them back for a complete refund. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Dave Kirby ( ...!ihnp4!akgub!cylixd!dave)
berke@ucla-cs.UUCP (12/25/85)
In article <799@brl-tgr.ARPA> wmartin@brl-tgr.ARPA (Will Martin ) writes: >HSN-3000 High Speed Hybrid Nuclear Event >Detector. The first brochure I got was titled "Certified Circumvention >for Power Shutdown", and the second, largely similar, is titled, >"Certified Circumvention for Processor Shutdown/Restart". The company > Certified by who? Certified for power shutdown - does power shutdown prevent EMP damage? Circumvention of what, exactly? The goal of protecting every instrument in the land against destruction in the event of a single nuclear blast, is a valid goal. As Henry Kissinger has pointed out, the possibility of a single nuclear blast is greater than that of total destruction, and a single blast is devastating enough that it is worth avoiding. Terrorism and accident seem to be likely sources of single nuclear blasts. I can't see how EMP detection can prevent EMP damage. I am assuming that EMP travels with the speed of light, and so any detection is moot. I believe there are two basically opposed schools of protection, a hard school and a soft school. The hard school says you better have your gizmo in a metal box or xxx. The soft school says, look, you can do this instead, and it's cheaper and it works just as well. Again, certified by who? Does power shutdown prevent EMP damage? Can detection "get ahead" of EMP? Peter Berke
sra@oddjob.UUCP (Scott R. Anderson) (01/05/86)
In article <622@cylixd.UUCP> dave@cylixd.UUCP (Dave Kirby) writes: >I'm starting my own insurance company, and I would like to broadcast >my advertisement here. It's called "End-of-the-World" insurance. For >only $300/month, you can get insurance that will pay you $10,000/month, >paid DIRECTLY TO YOU, for the rest of your life, should the world come >to an end. This reminds me of an old Tom Lehrer song, "We'll All Go Together when We Go", in which he predicts that No one will have the endurance to collect on his insurance; Lloyds of London will be loaded when they go. -- Scott Anderson ihnp4!oddjob!kaos!sra