jaymin@tcdmath.UUCP (Joe Jaquinta) (08/13/86)
We've seen sorting in nroff, prime number generation in TeX, does anybody know if anyone has written an operating system in a word processing language yet? j^2
wcs@ho95e.UUCP (#Bill_Stewart) (08/16/86)
In article <158@tcdmath.UUCP> jaymin@tcdmath.UUCP (Joe Jaquinta) writes: > >We've seen sorting in nroff, prime number generation in TeX, does >anybody know if anyone has written an operating system in a word >processing language yet? TECO? Actually, you can write EMACS as TECO macros, and LISP in EMACS; you could then write your OS in LISP. It'd be slow as a dog, but you could probably do a TECO-machine in firmware? -- # Bill Stewart, AT&T Bell Labs 2G-202, Holmdel NJ 1-201-949-0705 ihnp4!ho95c!wcs
daveh@cbmvax.cbm.UUCP (Dave Haynie) (08/18/86)
> Xref: cbmvax net.jokes:3686 net.text:278 > > In article <158@tcdmath.UUCP> jaymin@tcdmath.UUCP (Joe Jaquinta) writes: >> >>We've seen sorting in nroff, prime number generation in TeX, does >>anybody know if anyone has written an operating system in a word >>processing language yet? > > TECO? > > Actually, you can write EMACS as TECO macros, and LISP in EMACS; you > could then write your OS in LISP. It'd be slow as a dog, but you could > probably do a TECO-machine in firmware? > -- > # Bill Stewart, AT&T Bell Labs 2G-202, Holmdel NJ 1-201-949-0705 ihnp4!ho95c!wcs And TECO is really just a text edition, language, or at least it started out that way. As I recall, it originally allowed 26 * 3 variables (A-Z 3 times, accessed with a different syntax for each group). Then an additional 512 variables were added, corresponding to the MIT 512 character keyboard used for MIT EMACS. Later, a syntax was added for arbitrarily named variables. Variables cound contain numbers, strings, or text buffers. The evolution from text editor language to kludgy (and closer to "write-only" than even APL) programming language also followed the built-in operations. -- /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ Dave Haynie {caip,ihnp4,allegra,seismo}!cbmvax!daveh "I gained nothing at all from Supreme Enlightenment, and for that very reason it is called Supreme Enlightenment." -Gotama Buddha These opinions are my own, though for a small fee they be yours too. \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
alan@sdcrdcf.UUCP (Alan Algustyniak) (08/18/86)
In article <158@tcdmath.UUCP> jaymin@tcdmath.UUCP (Joe Jaquinta) writes: > >We've seen sorting in nroff, prime number generation in TeX, does >anybody know if anyone has written an operating system in a word >processing language yet? > > j^2 No, but some Elementary Particle physicists used to calculate Feyman diagram combinatorics in TECO. I have a paper on it. A joke?! Surely, you jest! And stop calling me Shirely! (at a single's bar) He: You look like a million dollars! She: Yea, and i'm just as hard to make!
gary@darth.UUCP (Gary Wisniewski) (08/21/86)
In article <158@tcdmath.UUCP> jaymin@tcdmath.UUCP (Joe Jaquinta) writes: > >We've seen sorting in nroff, prime number generation in TeX, does >anybody know if anyone has written an operating system in a word >processing language yet? I've written a relocating linker in TECO-11. There was nothing else available for writing someting like a linker. Object files were loaded into Q-buffers; a Q-buffer was reserved for a list of external symbols and publics ... the final program was generated in octal in the main buffer then converted in one fell swoop. I've seen EMACS keyboard macros to calculate polynomial coefficients to simplify implementation of Cody-Waite numerical algorithms for transcentental functions, but never got to look at the expansions (they may have been cheating). Any WordStar stories? Gary Wisniewski Pittsburgh, PA (412) 363-4685 uucp: {allegra,bellcore,cadre}!pitt!darth!gary
dyer@atari.UUcp (Landon Dyer) (08/23/86)
>We've seen sorting in nroff, prime number generation in TeX, does >anybody know if anyone has written an operating system in a word >processing language yet? TECO. You can do anything in TECO. There are games and systems software (file conversion utilities, an Eliza, even a sleazo assembler, which must have been written as a joke) written in TECO. One of my officemates used to talk to TECO as he edited away (he was otherwise perfectly sane). TECO does that to you. It is a "You Asked For It, You Got It" kind of enviroment. Gestapo. Every key does something (usually the wrong thing). TECO source code looks like line noise. As we well know, TECO is the Real Programmer's favorite editor. (A Real Programmer knows what happens when he types the letters of his name into TECO, as commands.) Second only to TECO is the debugger, which allows the Real Programmer to enter his text directly, in octal. Why fool around? [I left raw TECO far behind when I discovered EMACS. Now, EMACS is this editor that binds every key to *something* (usually the wrong thing), has thousands of commands to memorize, and likes to eat my files for lunch. Who says we've made progress in 20 years?] -- -Landon Dyer, Atari Corp. {sun,lll-lcc,lll-crg!vecpyr}!atari!dyer /-----------------------------------------------\ | The views represented here do not necessarily | "If Business is War, then | reflect those of Atari Corp., or even my own. | I'm a Prisoner of Business!" \-----------------------------------------------/
zeta@runx.OZ (Nick Andrew) (08/24/86)
Relay-Version: version B UNSW 1.1.5 (IPS) 85/10/18; site runx.OZ
From: jaymin@tcdmath.UUCP (Joe Jaquinta)
Date: 13 Aug 86 12:45:46 GMT
Newsgroups: net.text
Subject: You can do anything in (state your favorite word processor)
Message-ID: <158@tcdmath.UUCP>
Path: runx!ipso!metro!basser!moncskermit!munnari!seismo!mcvax!ukc!einode!tcdmath!jaymin
Reply-To: jaymin@tcdmath.UUCP (Joe Jaquinta)
Date-Received: Sat, 23 Aug 86 03:16:04 AEST
Organization: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin.
Lines: 6
We've seen sorting in nroff, prime number generation in TeX, does
anybody know if anyone has written an operating system in a word
processing language yet?
j^2
Hi!
This is my first USENET article, sorry if I make mistakes.
I have not seen any operating systems written in word processing
languages, however a friend of mine [Michael Wardman, former
s8427967@nswitgould.OZ ....!munnari!basser!nswitgould] spent two years
writing FREDEX.
Hard to describe, but FREDEX ran on the ancient Honeywell Level 66, a
beast of a thing if there ever was one. It was written in "Fred Buffer
Language", FRED being a text editor on the L/66 "Friendly Editor".
FREDEX had the following features:
o It kept a sorted list of all users, ranked by date/time of last access,
total access count, an RANK {private, lance-corporal, general .....}
o It provided translation between the level 66 user naming [Sxxxxxxx] and
real names
o It provided mail service to anybody on the user list
o ditto .... distribution lists .....
o Michael maintained a regular "Fredex News" to all users,
and lastly
o Fredex would "thank" the user each time he ran the program with a
small piece of mail, something like:
YOU HAVE MAIL.
* mail
(1 u) FREDEX 24/08/86 14:01:00
Thanks for making a bored Fredex very, very happy,
for the 135th time, Colonel jellyfish.
----
Fortunately, the Honeywell 66 is no longer with us [flame 1: GCOS the
L/66 os is the worst calamity I have seen: flame 0], and again fortunately,
FREDEX is no longer a fully supported system in its own right.
As with all things, Fredex deserves to die, sooner or later.
----
I am however glad to see other people making fools of themselves by
writing circuitous programs in utterly ridiculous languages ... by making
the system do something totally unlike what it was designed for ... and
getting it all to work.
My signature: something like this:
UUCP: ......!munnari!basser!ipso!runz!zeta
your guess is as good as mine to get to munnari (Melb. Aust),
try hplabs I think.
ACSNET: {easier} zeta@runx.OZ
Cheers, Nick.bc@mit-amt.MIT.EDU (William H Coderre) (08/26/86)
The best story I heard was that someone at DEC (where I used to work) actually did write one of the very first spreadsheet programs -- in DEC TECO. Oh well, anyway you can do much better in GNUEmacs. It has a better debugger than most systems. Ko-an: And the student went to the Master and said, "Enlighten me." So the master handed the student a very difficult and tedious book, say, the CLU Reference Manual. So the student went off for a long time and then came running back to the Master and said, "Master, I understand! I am ENLIGHTENED!" So the master took the book and put it in the toaster. The student cried "Wait! Why do you do that?" And the Master said, "I want the toaster to be enlightened, too." CLU makes all problems equally hard.................................bc
evp@lewey.UUCP (Ed Post) (08/26/86)
>We've seen sorting in nroff, prime number generation in TeX, does >anybody know if anyone has written an operating system in a word >processing language yet? > Somewhere, I probably have a copy of the Turing machine simulator I wrote in TECO. My first attempt at a Turing machine simulator took about 1000 lines of Algol; the TECO version (years later) took about a twenty line TECO macro. This might suggest that TECO is a much more powerful language than Algol; alternatively, it might suggest that TECO more closely resembles a Turing machine simulator than a programming language. "A TECO command sequence more closely resembles transmission line noise than readable text." (Craig Finseth, B.S. Thesis, MIT/LCS/TM-165, 1980) -- Ed Post {voder,hplabs,pyramid}!lewey!evp American Information Technology 10201 Torre Ave. Cupertino CA 95014 (408)252-8713
vallury@dartvax.UUCP (Vallury Prabhakar) (08/30/86)
In article <142@darth.UUCP> gary@darth.UUCP (Gary Wisniewski) writes: >In article <158@tcdmath.UUCP> jaymin@tcdmath.UUCP (Joe Jaquinta) writes: >> >>We've seen sorting in nroff, prime number generation in TeX, does >>anybody know if anyone has written an operating system in a word >>processing language yet? > >I've written a relocating linker in TECO-11. There was nothing else >available for writing someting like a linker. Object files were loaded blah blah blah so on, so forth, et al, ad nauseum, etc..... That was a joke ?????? Help !!! The geeks are taking over this sacred net..... Let me outta here Or am i missing some very fine and subtle nuance in there ??? Enlighten me someone before I go back to my comfortable little padded cell.
hoffman@hdsvx1.UUCP (Richard Hoffman) (08/31/86)
Landon Dyer (among others) writes: > You can do anything in TECO. There is a wide-spread belief among members of the Church of the Latter-Day Hacker that when some one finally enters the entire text of the Bible onto a TECO command line, the world will end... :-) -- Richard Hoffman | "Oh life is a wonderful cycle of song, Schlumberger Well Services | A medley of extemporanea. hoffman%hdsvx1@slb-doll.csnet | And Love is a thing that can never go wrong PO Box 2175, Houston, TX 77252 | ... And I am Marie of Roumania." --D. PARKER
liam@cs.qmc.ac.uk (William Roberts) (09/01/86)
Sender:
Keywords:
> Any WordStar stories?
"A mere abacus: consider it not." - HHGTTG
Seriously, doesn't this whole correspondence suggest that
somewhere we are doing something very wrong? Why have people
found it necessary to produce text-editors so powerful that
they can compute Feynmann diagrams, polynomial coefficients and
pretend to be link editors? Are such programs the way to turn your
computer from a useless lump of silicon into a tool which
really helps you do whatever it is you do, or are they a
ghastly waste of effort?
The Unix file is an uninterpreted stream of bytes: some of
these streams are finite and repeatable, so we call them text
files and invent programs to manipulate them. Then we
differentiate them by given them interpretations; this is a
source code file, this is an object file, this is a bit map,
this is human-readable text.
Having editors that can operate on the common abstraction
sounds like a good idea; I certainly find it useful to be able
to create letters and source code with the same editor, instead
of having to use different ones (can you do this with MacWrite,
I wonder?). But the problem comes when we add extra semantics
to the information - it is very hard to edit an executable
object file and get a sensible, executable result and with
graphical information, the text abstraction is even less
tractable. Giving the editor enough muscle to allow arbitrary
programs to be written and applied to the text is just a way of
changing the editor so that it preserves some of the extra
meaning that you give to the text.
The $64,000 question is this: can it ever work?
If we waved a magic wand over TECO or EMACS or VI or whatever,
transforming its user-interface into something really civilised
and easy-to-use, would we get the Philosopher's touchstone
which turns computers into gold? If not, what are the
*fundamental* problems with this approach (embellishing text
editors) and what should we be working on instead?
--
William Roberts ARPA: liam@cs.qmc.ac.uk (gw: cs.ucl.edu)
Queen Mary College UUCP: liam@qmc-cs.UUCP
LONDON, UK Tel: 01-980 4811 ext 3900okunewck@gondor.UUCP (Philip E. OKunewick) (09/04/86)
In article <5087@dartvax.UUCP> vallury@dartvax.UUCP (Vallury Prabhakar) writes: >In article <142@darth.UUCP> gary@darth.UUCP (Gary Wisniewski) writes: >>In article <158@tcdmath.UUCP> jaymin@tcdmath.UUCP (Joe Jaquinta) writes: >>> >>>[ Something apparently worth quoting, requoting, and requoting again. ] >>> >blah blah blah so on, so forth, et al, ad nauseum, etc..... > >That was a joke ?????? > >Help !!! The geeks are taking over this sacred net..... > >Let me outta here > >Or am i missing some very fine and subtle nuance in there ??? > >Enlighten me someone before I go back to my comfortable little padded cell. That was a joke ?????? Help !!! The geeks are taking over this sacred net..... Let me outta here Or am i missing some very fine and subtle nuance in there ??? Enlighten me someone before I go back to my comfortable little padded cell. ---Duck