ronc@fai (04/29/86)
Subject: Re: Urinalysis...Lie Detectors...all th > The relative addictive power of a drug has nothing to do with why the >government passes laws outlawing certain drugs. >tom keller ** Absolutely. Otherwise, cigarettes would be illegal. Ron -- -- Ronald O. Christian (Fujitsu America Inc., San Jose, Calif.) seismo!amdahl!fai!ronc -or- ihnp4!pesnta!fai!ronc Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: "If you are seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it."
ronc@fai (04/29/86)
Subject: Re: Urinalysis...Lie Detectors...all th >...That is a factual fallacy. Another one is that caffiene is not >addictive "to most people". Most regular users do, indeed, become >addicted to caffiene, both in the sense that they become dependent upon >its effects ("Sorry I'm slow -- I haven't had my morning cup of coffee >yet."), and find it difficult to adjust to life without it. It is not >as addictive as, say, nicotine. *** I confess, I was a caffiene junky. 10 to 15 cups a day, 3 to get started in the morning. I woke up feeling horrible, headaches, dizzyness, general lethergy. If I didn't get my coffee in the afternoon, I started having headaches and nausea. About the time I switched jobs I decided to quit "cold turkey" and spent two weeks "drying out". I don't drink coffee anymore. An extreme case, but shows how one can be addicted to caffiene. (Boy, it's a *lot* easier to get up in the morning now!) I should point out that the addiction is *physical*. I had physical symptoms of withdrawal when I didn't get my cup on time. Anyone who thinks smoking is not dangerous should watch my mother try to smoke and drive at the same time. If she has to shift in a corner, the car zigs because she doesn't have enough hands to hold onto the wheel. Again, an extreme case. Lots of people smoke and drive successfully, or the freeways would look like junk yards. But the distraction is still there. This is what makes this whole drug testing thing so silly. The idea is not to avoid hiring people that are doing addictive dangerous drugs, but to avoid hiring people that are doing addictive dangerous *illegal* drugs. The motivation is political, not practical. Ron -- -- Ronald O. Christian (Fujitsu America Inc., San Jose, Calif.) seismo!amdahl!fai!ronc -or- ihnp4!pesnta!fai!ronc Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: "If you are seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it."
suhre@trwrba (04/29/86)
Subject: Re: Urinalysis...Lie Detectors...all th In article <287@gumby.UUCP> mading@gumby.UUCP (Eric Mading) writes: >In article <1239@dual.UUCP>, hav@dual.UUCP writes: >> In article <108@gumby.UUCP>, I write: >I know of very few alcoholics who only have only one drink a day, so their >drinking is damaging their health. If you limit yourself to one drink per day, you are not an alcoholic. >It is a fact that marijuana stays >in the bloodstream for nearly a month, so one hit of marijuana will keep you >high for an entire month. I don't know much about marijuana, but the "users" that I have had contact with did not demonstrate that they were high for a month after smoking. This does not mean that there are not some trace elements detectible in the blood- stream. > > Eric Mading > Computer Science Department > UW-Madison > >The standard disclaimer applies. Usual disclaimers. Maurice {decvax,sdcrdcf,ihnp4,ucbvax}!trwrb!suhre
david@tekig5 (04/30/86)
Subject: Re: Urinalysis...Lie Detectors...all th > I would like to also add some things about drug testing. Shortly after >writing the article, someone here in the computer science department sent me >a letter via mail that stated that he felt it was ok to hire someone who was >on LSD. I would like to say that the government makes drugs illegal based on >their addictive power. Marijuana, cocaine, LSD, heroin, and speed are illegal >because these drugs are addictive to most people. Alcohol and caffiene are not >addictive to most people so they are legal. It is a fact that marijuana stays >in the bloodstream for nearly a month, so one hit of marijuana will keep you >high for an entire month. Since this would keep an employee under its influencethis long, I would not hire anyone who smokes pot. > > Eric Mading > Computer Science Department > UW-Madison > >The standard disclaimer applies. The scary thing about this stuff is that there are people in power who have the same misinformed viewpoint as Eric here. If you have never tried any type of illegal drug, then I suggest you talk to someone that has. The notion that you are high for a month from one hit of pot shows a monumental lack of knowledge. And alchohol is responsible for more time and money lost in this nation than all illegal drugs combined and multiplied by ten. If I were the president of some company, I'd hire people that do their job well. That means I would hire intelligent people. If their performance decreased to an undesirable point, then I might ask if there is some problem that is affecting their work. In fact, I would rather hire someone who has a knowledge of drugs and their affects, better education equals better drug awareness. If you want to judge people, then judge them on the work they do for you, not on whether their morals are the same. dave
ron@brl-sem (04/30/86)
Subject: Re: Urinalysis...Lie Detectors...all th > There is only one way alcohol can improve your health; that is, if you > average only one drink a day. Possibly, possibly not. Totally unfounded statement. > Alcoholism is a disease that someone is born with; it is often heredetary. Perhaps. I don't believe this either. The problem is that once someone has developed a habitual behaviour it is near impossible to eradicate it. You can force yourself into abstinance or rationing, but the habit is still there. This is something that psychiatrists admit that there is currently little hope for. The best they do is help people cope with the habit. -Ron
cda@jade (05/01/86)
Subject: Re: Urinalysis...Lie Detectors...all th > I would like to say that the government makes drugs illegal based on >their addictive power. Marijuana, cocaine, LSD, heroin, and speed are illegal >because these drugs are addictive to most people. Alcohol and caffiene are not >addictive to most people so they are legal. It is a fact that marijuana stays >in the bloodstream for nearly a month, so one hit of marijuana will keep you >high for an entire month. Since this would keep an employee under its influencethis long, I would not hire anyone who smokes pot. > > Eric Mading > Computer Science Department > UW-Madison > Do you also believe that our senators and representatives think only of your best interests and don't care how much money they make? I have yet to read anything indicating that LSD is addictive, nor have I ever met anyone who was addicted to it, though I knew lots of people who took lots of it. Nicotine is supposedly more addictive than heroin - why isn't it illegal? People have been known to die from alcohol withdrawal, but even the most hardcore marijuana users will suffer from nothing worse than insomnia if their supply is suddenly cut off. Caffiene most definitely is addictive to most people: most caffiene addicts will suffer headaches if they suddenly cut off their caffiene intake. Lead stays in the body much longer than a month and causes mental retardation: would you not hire anyone who has ever lived near a freeway? charlotte allen
suhre@trwrb.UUCP (05/15/86)
In article <190@brl-sem> ron@brl-sem writes: >Subject: Re: Urinalysis...Lie Detectors...all th > >> There is only one way alcohol can improve your health; that is, if you >> average only one drink a day. > >Possibly, possibly not. Totally unfounded statement. > I couldn't stand this any more. My doctor told me "One glass of wine, *maximum*, per day appears to be medically beneficial. More than that appears to not be medically beneficial." [Emphasis is shown as best as I recall]. Naturally, I didn't ask him for references. >> Alcoholism is a disease that someone is born with; it is often heredetary. > >Perhaps. I don't believe this either. The problem is that once someone >has developed a habitual behaviour it is near impossible to eradicate it. Two million people have recovered from alcoholism with the help of the fellowship of Alcoholics Anonymous. Their experience is in direct contradiction with the paragraph surrounding this one! >You can force yourself into abstinance or rationing, but the habit is still >there. This is something that psychiatrists admit that there is currently >little hope for. The best they do is help people cope with the habit. > >-Ron Maurice -- Maurice Suhre {decvax,sdcrdcf,ihnp4,ucbvax}!trwrb!suhre