[net.misc] Urinalysis...Lie Detectors...

ronc@fai.UUCP (Ronald O. Christian) (05/17/86)

Heard a fragment of a news story on the radio the other day.
Appears that a bunch of college students got unintentionally
high on LSD when someone spiked the coffee machine.  One possible
long term effect of this that wasn't mentioned is that these
students will probably be denied jobs on the basis of their
urine tests until the level of LSD in their blood becomes
undetectable.

Even then they will never be able to pass a lie detector
test if asked the question "have you ever taken an illegal
drug".


			Ron
-- 
--
		Ronald O. Christian (Fujitsu America Inc., San Jose, Calif.)
		seismo!amdahl!fai!ronc  -or-   ihnp4!pesnta!fai!ronc

Oliver's law of assumed responsibility:
	"If you are seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it."

kwh@bentley.UUCP (KW Heuer) (05/19/86)

In article <180@fai.UUCP> fai!ronc writes:
[story about LSD-spiked coffee machine]
>Even then they will never be able to pass a lie detector test if asked
>the question "have you ever taken an illegal drug".

They didn't "take" the drug; they were "given" it.  If the testee honestly
believes this interpretation, he should be able to pass a polygraph test.
(Besides, what's wrong with answering "not intentionally" and giving the
full story?)

david@tekig5.UUCP (05/20/86)

In article <840@bentley.UUCP> kwh@bentley.UUCP (KW Heuer) writes:
>In article <180@fai.UUCP> fai!ronc writes:
>[story about LSD-spiked coffee machine]
>>Even then they will never
> be able to pass a lie detector test if asked
>>the question "have you ever taken an illegal drug".
>
>They didn't "take" the drug; they were "given" it.  If the testee honestly
>believes this interpretation, he should be able to pass a polygraph test.
>(Besides, what's wrong with answering "not intentionally" and giving the
>full story?)

A lie detector will not detect the truth.  What it will do is inform
the operator that you have shown a nervous reaction to the question.
This can be interpreted as a lie.  If you were asked whether you had
ever "bopped" your best friends SO,  you would probably have a reaction
even if you had only THOUGHT about it.



dave

I am sure I have commited adultery in my mind many times......

dts@gitpyr.UUCP (Danny Sharpe) (05/23/86)

In article <840@bentley.UUCP> kwh@bentley.UUCP (KW Heuer) writes:
>In article <180@fai.UUCP> fai!ronc writes:
>[story about LSD-spiked coffee machine]
>>Even then they will never be able to pass a lie detector test if asked
>>the question "have you ever taken an illegal drug".
>
>They didn't "take" the drug; they were "given" it.  If the testee honestly
>believes this interpretation, he should be able to pass a polygraph test.
>(Besides, what's wrong with answering "not intentionally" and giving the
>full story?)


I can see the testee being made to feel ashamed and guilty about it, like
women are often made to feel about being raped.  It comes with being part
of a society that stigmatizes these things.  If the testee feels shame and
guilt then it doesn't matter much to the lie detector test whether they
took the drug deliberately or not.

                                                   -Danny



-- 

--  "How can I tell," said the man, "that the past isn't a fiction designed
    to account for the discrepancy between my immediate physical sensations
    and my state of mind?"  --

Danny Sharpe
School of ICS
Georgia Insitute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332
...!{akgua,allegra,amd,hplabs,ihnp4,seismo,ut-ngp}!gatech!gitpyr!dts

showard@udenva.UUCP (Steve "Blore" Howard) (05/27/86)

In article <683@tekig5.UUCP> david@tekig5.UUCP (David Hayes) writes:
>
>A lie detector will not detect the truth.  What it will do is inform
>the operator that you have shown a nervous reaction to the question.
>This can be interpreted as a lie.  If you were asked whether you had
>ever "bopped" your best friends SO,  you would probably have a reaction
>even if you had only THOUGHT about it.
>
  It's not even that good.  A "lie detector" will indicate whether you
exhibit certain physical signs which are associated with stress, or a
nervous reaction, which may be associated with not telling the truth.  
It takes a very skilled polygraph operator to determine anything at all
from a session, and simply strapping a subject to the box and asking him
a long string of questions will produce results that are worse than useless.

-- 
"Paradise is exactly like where you are right now, only much, much better"

Steve "Blore" Howard, Evil Genius at Large
                      {hplabs, seismo}!hao!udenva!showard
or {boulder, cires, ucbvax!nbires, cisden}!udenva!showard

js2j@mhuxt.UUCP (sonntag) (05/28/86)

> Alchohol is hallucinagenic.  In other words, when under the influence
> of alchohol, one sees, feels, or hears things that would not be seen,
> heard, or felt if not under its influence.
> 
> LSD is also hallucinagenic in this way.  

    I've been under the influence of alchohol many times, and failed to
notice this effect.  Does it only happen when you get many times as sloshed as 
any reasonable person would, or what?  Does it happen to you when you drink
alchohol?

> 		Ken Arnold
-- 
Jeff Sonntag
ihnp4!mhuxt!js2j

arnold@ucsfcgl.UUCP (Ken Arnold%CGL) (05/29/86)

>> = Me
> = Jeff Sonntag

>> Alchohol is hallucinagenic.  In other words, when under the influence
>> of alchohol, one sees, feels, or hears things that would not be seen,
>> heard, or felt if not under its influence.
>> 
>> LSD is also hallucinagenic in this way.  
>
>    I've been under the influence of alchohol many times, and failed to
>notice this effect.  Does it only happen when you get many times as sloshed as 
>any reasonable person would, or what?  Does it happen to you when you drink
>alchohol?

Perhaps I could state it more clearly to you by saying that both
alchohol and LSD alter your perception of reality, i.e., when under the
influence of either, your interpretations of sensory inputs and other
events are altered.

As an example, many people's perceptions of the humor of a situation
changes when they are drunk.  They will laugh at things which seem
pretty stupid to any sober person.  People run into things which they
didn't notice because they pay less attention to the outer edges of
their visual range.  They miscalculate where objects are.  Their
hearing becomes less sensitive (which is one reason people who are
drunk tend to talk loudly).  The drunken person is also more prone to
violence, i.e., finds it more statisfying or values it as a solution
more.  (All of these have variants.  I have a friend who becomes more
sensitive to sound when really drunk.)

This does, indeed, happen to me when I drink alchohol, the degree
varying with the amount consumed (and other environmental conditions).
It happens to everyone I know.  I usually don't drink enough to make
these effects a problem for me.  Most people drink because they enjoy
being in the altered state that alchohol puts them, or at least they
enjoy it more than being sober.  If it *didn't* affect peoples sense
and moods, it wouldn't be used.

		Ken Arnold

suhre@trwrb.UUCP (Maurice E. Suhre) (05/30/86)

In article <918@mhuxt.UUCP> js2j@mhuxt.UUCP (sonntag) writes:
>> Alchohol is hallucinagenic.  In other words, when under the influence
>> of alchohol, one sees, feels, or hears things that would not be seen,
>> heard, or felt if not under its influence.
>>
>    I've been under the influence of alchohol many times, and failed to
>notice this effect.  Does it only happen when you get many times as sloshed as
>any reasonable person would, or what?  Does it happen to you when you drink
>alchohol?
>
        There is such a thing as delerium tremens, DT's for short,
        and I may be misspelling.  I believe the DT's start when
        the use of alcohol is discontinued, i.e. when the alcohol
        abuser starts the "drying out" process.

        The movie "Lost Weekend", starring Ray Milland circa 1945,
        has a marvelous sequence where he "sees" a bat emerging from
        the wall after it ate a hole in the wall to emerge from.  (I'm
        glad my old English teacher didn't see that last sentence!)

        Any textbook on alcohol abuse will probably describe the DT's.
        I never had them, and have never hallucinated under the influence
        of alcohol (unless you call thinking that I could drink normally
        was a hallucination!).  For complete information, you need a
        medical practitioner.

--
Maurice Suhre

{decvax,sdcrdcf,ihnp4,ucbvax}!trwrb!suhre

glenn@c3pe.UUCP (06/03/86)

I don't think alcohol is a hallucinogen, even though it alters perceptions.
I'll hit a dictionary later, but I suspect the definition is more precise
than that.  I do know that alcohol is a depressant.  The ways in which LSD
and alcohol alter perception are different.  Alcohol mainly subtracts, LSD
also largely distorts and "adds".  (I don't think it really adds any new
input, but rather that it removes "filtering" allowing you to see things 
that evolution has decided are too distracting (such as the movement of
blood cells in the eye).  I could be wrong.)  I'm not saying that alcohol
does not produce "hallucinations".  I am saying that that is not its main
effect on perception.  Does anyone know the physiological actions of the
two well enough to explain similarities/differences between their effects
on the brain itself?

					D. Glenn Arthur Jr.
					..!seismo!dolqci!hqhomes!glenn