[net.micro.cbm] comal vs. simon's basic

sct@lanl-a.UUCP (03/23/84)

Subject: COMAL vs. Simon's Basic
Newsgroups: net.micro.cbm
  I just received a flyer on COMAL for the C64.  It appears to be a great
replacement for C64 Basic but is it that much better than Simon's
Basic?  The disk version of COMAL (ver 0.14) at $19.95 leaves 10K
of memory available for programming.  The ver. 2.0 cartridge which is due
out this summer from Commodore will provide 30K available memory but will
cost "under $100" (read $99.99?).
  Any comments out there in net land on the pros and cons of each?
Any comparisons between the two.
  Please post any responses as I'm sure others are interested.

porter@inuxd.UUCP (J Porter) (03/24/84)

Off the top of my head (ouch) here are a few pros and cons:

SIMONS' BASIC (SB) is an extension of the Microsoft BASIC
that is built into the 64.  Thus it is upward compatable.  
COMAL is not.

COMAL (disk version) is free and in the public domain.  If the guys
in MadCity (Madison, WI home of the COMAL users group) had offered
to make copies for virtually nothing, the demand on them would be
horrendous.  They would be copying disks 24 hours/day and probably
wear out a drive or two.  They did the right thing by putting it in 
the public domain, and let it distribute itself.

COMAL has LOGO commands built in.  SB does not.  SB has music and graphics
that operate in the background.  COMAL does not.

Both have named produres and structured programming constructs.

SB doesn't have a CASE statement.  COMAL does.

SB doesn't assume you are using a disk.  COMAL does.

Variables in COMAL are more than two characters.  Not in SB.

COMAL appears to have faster integer arithmetic.  Not sure about SB.

SB is available in Cartridge now.  COMAL isn't.

Real programmers don't use SB.  But I like SB anyways.

Jeff Porter  (inuxd!porter)
AT&T Consumer Products
Indianapolis

PS:  As of the end of this month, I will no longer be working for
AT&T Consumer Products.  Starting April 2, I will be workinng for
Commodore Computer in West Chester, PA!!!  I guess you could say
that I have gone pro.  They are not on the net yet, but that
may change if they are going to develop a Z8000 UNIX PC.
I'm going ot miss the net, and I hope to keep in touch with
some of you via USNAIL.  My new business address will be:

Jeffrey S. Porter
Commodore Semiconductor Systems
1200 Wilson Dr.
West Chester, PA  19380

Keep smiling:     :-)

miller@uiucdcs.UUCP (miller ) (03/25/84)

#R:lanl-a:-396100:uiucdcs:36100063:000:82
uiucdcs!miller    Mar 24 21:39:00 1984

Goodbye Jeff.  Thanks for all of your contributions.

A. Ray Miller
Univ Illinois

grass@uiuccsb.UUCP (03/26/84)

#R:lanl-a:-396100:uiuccsb:16800010:000:1471
uiuccsb!grass    Mar 25 11:20:00 1984


I have been using Simon's Basic a little now, and I think its claims of
having "structured programming" constructs are pretty overblown. Examples:

1) IF-THEN-ELSE   takes the form IF ... THEN <statement>
					ELSE <statement>
   where statement usually ends up being a goto.  This is structured?
2) Named subroutines....BUT NO PARAMETERS!

The structuring capabilities of this language do not seem very
different from that of BASIC to me.

Simon's basic offers some editing tools, but there are some real
caveats there:

1) Autonumbering and renumbering is nice, but the renumbering
does NOT renumber line numbers occuring in GOTOs, GOSUBs ,etc.
so you will need to search for those and correct them by hand.

2) The program MERGE facility doesn't know about line numbers
and will leave you with duplicate numberings and a REAL MESS
if you merge two programs that use the same line numbers.

What is NICE about SIMON'S BASIC is the added string handling
routines and graphic routines.  But, BASIC is BASIC all the same.
My advice: take a good look at the manual and the example
programs to see if this is what you want.

If it is JUST the added graphics/ sound stuff you want, you might
consider the C-64 expander cartridge that just came out.  This
adds about 11 such primitives to the standard C-64 BASIC.

Re: COMAL.. I have that too, I haven't used it much because 10k
availible space seems pretty skimpy to me.  Simon's BASIC leaves
you over 30k.

 		- Judy Grass