neff@hpvcla.UUCP (neff) (09/18/86)
I have a friend on a very tight budget who really wants some sort of
CHEAP system for word processing (he is currently in a doctoral degree
program). He saw the COMB liquidator add for the Commodore Plus system
for 80 bucks.
I know this computer flopped on the market largely due to lack of
C-64 compatibility, but my friend does not care about compatability
so long as the built in word processing is adequate for his needs.
Does anyone know if the Commodore Plus built in software is any good?
Can it do footnotes in a variety of styles? Is there a spelling
checker? Can it handle documents spread between several floppy disks?
Does it support both dot matrix and daisy wheel printers? If he buys
an optional monitor would it display 80 columns of text? What kind
of monitors will it support?
The ultimate question I would like an answer to is this: For about $500
he could put together a system with one floppy, a monitor (assuming
its 80 columns) and a descent printer. Would this give him a significant
advantage over a good electric typewriter?
Thanks for your insights. Either email me or post any information about
this machine. Remember my friend does not care about future available
software, he only cares about his current need for a word processer.
Dave Neff
ihnp4!hpfcla!hpvcla!neff
or
hplabs!hpvcla!neffgrr@cbmvax.cbm.UUCP (George Robbins) (09/21/86)
In article <1390001@hpvcla.UUCP> neff@hpvcla.UUCP (neff) writes: > >Does anyone know if the Commodore Plus built in software is any good? >Can it do footnotes in a variety of styles? Is there a spelling >checker? Can it handle documents spread between several floppy disks? >Does it support both dot matrix and daisy wheel printers? If he buys >an optional monitor would it display 80 columns of text? What kind >of monitors will it support? > >Dave Neff ihnp4!hpfcla!hpvcla!neff or hplabs!hpvcla!neff The built in editor/word processor is generally considered one of the least effective features of the PLUS/4. I would not recommend a PLUS/4 to your friend, perhaps a C/64, but even then I'm not sure you'll find the level of word processing features available that you're looking for. Anybody else have any suggestions? -- George Robbins - now working for, uucp: {ihnp4|seismo|caip}!cbmvax!grr but no way officially representing arpa: cbmvax!grr@seismo.css.GOV Commodore, Engineering Department fone: 215-431-9255 (only by moonlite)
daveh@cbmvax.cbm.UUCP (Dave Haynie) (09/22/86)
> Nf-ID: #N:hpvcla:1390001:000:1343 > Nf-From: hpvcla!neff Sep 17 15:56:00 1986 > > Does anyone know if the Commodore Plus built in software is any good? > Can it do footnotes in a variety of styles? Is there a spelling > checker? Can it handle documents spread between several floppy disks? > Does it support both dot matrix and daisy wheel printers? If he buys > an optional monitor would it display 80 columns of text? What kind > of monitors will it support? > > The ultimate question I would like an answer to is this: For about $500 > he could put together a system with one floppy, a monitor (assuming > its 80 columns) and a descent printer. Would this give him a significant > advantage over a good electric typewriter? I wouldn't recommend the +4 for its built-in software at all. The 3+1 package built in is rather difficult to use, and seems unnecessarily limited. The WP, for example, only allows about two pages of text to be entered (around 70-100 lines, I forget the exact number). You could chain text file together, but the machine HAS enough memory for probably 20-30 pages. Also, the +4 is a 40 column only machine, and I've seen NO add on device that even gives you a limited form of 80 column display. For a little bit more you could get a real word processor for the +4, but you'd really be better off with a C64. There are many high quality WP programs for the C64, and he could always upgrade to a C128 and get 80 column text and all. > Thanks for your insights. Either email me or post any information about > this machine. Remember my friend does not care about future available > software, he only cares about his current need for a word processer. > > Dave Neff > ihnp4!hpfcla!hpvcla!neff > or > hplabs!hpvcla!neff -- /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ Dave Haynie {caip,ihnp4,allegra,seismo}!cbmvax!daveh "I gained nothing at all from Supreme Enlightenment, and for that very reason it is called Supreme Enlightenment." -Gotama Buddha These opinions are my own, though for a small fee they be yours too. \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
andy@cbmvax.cbm.UUCP (Andy Finkel) (09/23/86)
In article <762@cbmvax.cbmvax.cbm.UUCP> Dave Neff writes >> >> Does anyone know if the Commodore Plus built in software is any good? >> Can it do footnotes in a variety of styles? Is there a spelling >> checker? Can it handle documents spread between several floppy disks? >> Does it support both dot matrix and daisy wheel printers? If he buys >> an optional monitor would it display 80 columns of text? What kind >> of monitors will it support? >> Script/Plus is an excellent word processor for the Plus/4,available seperately on a rom cartridge. A determined person could install it in place of the 3+1 ROMs in the Plus/4. It does support both dot matrix and daisy printers. The Plus/4 doesn't do 80 columns, however, Script/Plus does have a scrolling mode to see what the document will look like. It handles multiple files, etc, and probably has most of what you could want in a word processor. >> The ultimate question I would like an answer to is this: For about $500 >> he could put together a system with one floppy, a monitor (assuming >> its 80 columns) and a descent printer. Would this give him a significant >> advantage over a good electric typewriter? Almost any word processor gives advantages over an electric typewriter, (unless of course, the software specifically tried to emulate a typewriter :-) ), at least in my opinion. >> Thanks for your insights. Either email me or post any information about >> this machine. Remember my friend does not care about future available >> software, he only cares about his current need for a word processer. >> >> Dave Neff >> ihnp4!hpfcla!hpvcla!neff >> or >> hplabs!hpvcla!neff I know he's only interested in wordprocessing, but if we ever gets into telecomunications, the hardware RS232 in the Plus/4 is the way to go... The C64 has a lot more software. Someday your friend might want to do more. And if its wordprocessing only that your friend wants, the C128 has an 80 column mode, so I'd choose that over either the C64 or Plus/4 (it also runs C64 software) andy finkel Commodore/Amiga Alright, so I'm biased. So what. -- andy finkel Commodore(Amiga) {ihnp4|seismo|allegra}!cbmvax!andy or pyramid!amiga!andy Any expressed opinions are mine; but feel free to share. I disclaim all responsibilities, all shapes, all sizes, all colors. "Remember, no matter where you grow, there you are." - Buckaroo Bonsai.
bub@rlgvax.UUCP ( Mongo Mauler) (09/23/86)
In article <762@cbmvax.cbmvax.cbm.UUCP>, Dave Haynie writes: > > Does anyone know if the Commodore Plus built in software is any good? > > Can it do footnotes in a variety of styles? Is there a spelling > > checker? Can it handle documents spread between several floppy disks? > > Does it support both dot matrix and daisy wheel printers? If he buys > > an optional monitor would it display 80 columns of text? What kind > > of monitors will it support? > > > > The ultimate question I would like an answer to is this: For about $500 > > he could put together a system with one floppy, a monitor (assuming > > its 80 columns) and a descent printer. Would this give him a significant > > advantage over a good electric typewriter? > > I wouldn't recommend the +4 for its built-in software at all. The 3+1 > package built in is rather difficult to use, and seems unnecessarily > limited. The WP, for example, only allows about two pages of text to be > entered (around 70-100 lines, I forget the exact number). You could chain > text file together, but the machine HAS enough memory for probably 20-30 > pages. Also, the +4 is a 40 column only machine, and I've seen NO add > on device that even gives you a limited form of 80 column display. For > a little bit more you could get a real word processor for the +4, but > you'd really be better off with a C64. There are many high quality WP > programs for the C64, and he could always upgrade to a C128 and get 80 > column text and all. > > > Thanks for your insights. Either email me or post any information about > > this machine. Remember my friend does not care about future available > > software, he only cares about his current need for a word processer. > > > > Dave Neff It's kind of hard to answer your basic question (about the 500 bucks for a +4 system being a better investment than a good electronic typewriter. In my opinion, just about any home computer word processing system is better than a typewriter, for the simple reason that document preparation, error correction, retrieval, and reprinting is infinitely easier with a word processor/floppy disk combination. That is of course, completely a matter of personal taste. With a plus 4, he would have to do a lot of extra work to prepare his documents to his needs, but at least once done, they would be done forever, or very easy to fix up. Can you say the same for an inexpensive electronic typewriter? Several other 80 column word processing systems based on CBM machines might be priced like this: New Commodore 64C computer ~180.00 (or C64 computer - ~140.00) CBM 1541 disk drive ~150.00 3rd party 80 column card ~ 80.00 Monochrome 80 col. monitor ~100.00 HIGH QUALITY word processing software (spelling checker, full doc preview, etc ~100.00 3rd party letter quality printer, no interface needed ~200.00 (Cardco markets one) ------------------------------------------------------------- APPROXIMATE TOTAL SYSTEM COST ~810.00 (+-100.00) ------------------------------------------------------------- Commodore 128 computer ~260.00 CBM 1541 disk drive ~150.00 Monochrome 80 col. monitor ~100.00 - 200.00 Letter quality printer ~350.00 (including interface) Word processing software ~100.00 - 150.00 ------------------------------------------------------------- APPROXIMATE TOTAL SYSTEM COST ~960.00 (+-100.00) ------------------------------------------------------------- If it were my choice between HAVING to buy a good typewriter or putting together a home computer based word processing system, I'd certainly opt for the WP system, based on my own laziness. Word processors can certainly spoil you when it comes to using typewriters! I can probably type 60 - 70 wpm on a typewriter, with MANY errors. I can probably hit 90 wpm on a WP, including backspaces over any errors I make. Even for a slow typist, the time savings in error correction alone might make the WP system more attractive, even if quite expensive. When you add the other advantages (instant recall of original document, multiple 1st copy (no carbons necessary) printing, easy updates, corrections, or reformatting of the original document, etc. etc.), the word processor is definitely the way to go (for me at least - I've used both extensively and I HATE using typewriters now, even the super snazzy new jobs by the big blue guys and the copier folks). You certainly don't have to stick with CBM, either. Check some of the clearances on Atari or other home systems. And remember, when the need for a word processor is gone, you'd still have your own computer system to play with.
elg@usl.UUCP (Eric Lee Green) (09/26/86)
In article <758@cbmvax.cbmvax.cbm.UUCP> grr@cbmvax.UUCP (George Robbins) writes: >In article <1390001@hpvcla.UUCP> neff@hpvcla.UUCP (neff) writes: >>Dave Neff ihnp4!hpfcla!hpvcla!neff or hplabs!hpvcla!neff > >The built in editor/word processor is generally considered one of the least >effective features of the PLUS/4. I would not recommend a PLUS/4 to your >friend, perhaps a C/64, but even then I'm not sure you'll find the level of >word processing features available that you're looking for. > >Anybody else have any suggestions? If the friend has the cash, a cheap IBM clone may be the answer, at least for semi-decent text editing (haven't seen a decent editor for my "toy" C-64 or C-128, but maybe Emacs has me spoiled). A local dealer is selling the Leading Edge PC with the Leading Edge WP, monitor, two drives, and 512k of RAM for $1399, which sounds like a pretty good deal to me (considering that a 128 with two drives and color monitor would cost $1100, and it's nowhere near as powerful as a PC-Drone). Of course, if your friend wants to get in on the leading edge of computing, he should get an Amiga :-). -- Eric Green {akgua,ut-sally}!usl!elg (Snail Mail P.O. Box 92191, Lafayette, LA 70509) " In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
elg@usl.UUCP (Eric Lee Green) (10/03/86)
In article <1082@rlgvax.UUCP> bub@rlgvax.UUCP ( Mongo Mauler) writes: > > Commodore 128 computer ~260.00 > CBM 1541 disk drive ~150.00 > Monochrome 80 col. monitor ~100.00 - 200.00 > Letter quality printer ~350.00 (including interface) > Word processing software ~100.00 - 150.00 > ------------------------------------------------------------- > APPROXIMATE TOTAL SYSTEM COST ~960.00 (+-100.00) > ------------------------------------------------------------- > > If it were my choice between HAVING to buy a good typewriter > or putting together a home computer based word processing > system, I'd certainly opt for the WP system, based on my own > laziness. That $350 for the letter quality printer seems somewhat high. I bought a Blue Chip daisy-wheel printer for $199 -- it's slow as heck, but GEEZ, that sucker prints good. Also, the MPS-1000, last I looked, was selling for about $299 or so, and prints pretty good near-letter-quality text (since it's just an Epson Homewriter with a serial bus interface). I put together my C-128 for about this price: C-128 -------------------- $269 1541 drive *used* ---------- $100 (just look for someone who upgraded from a C-64 to a 128) 80 column monochrome monitor $50 *new* (just look, you can find one for this price anywhere) Blue Chip printer $199 word processor $90 Total --------------------- $708 I originally used the MPS-803 from my C-64 system (which my brother claimed), but bought the Blue Chip when I needed a letter-quality printer to print the I.C.E. manual on (somehow, sending our customers 80 pages of eye-strain dot-matrix didn't seem to be a good solution). I also needed a new typewriter because my 40-year-old Royal manual was losing pieces here and there and I was running out of rubber bands and bailing wire to hold it together, and $199 sure seemed like a cheap price for an electric typewriter (which is basically what it is -- a Brother typewriter engine, in a printer case with proper interface electronics). But, I'll tell you one thing -- I'm sure getting a 1571 as soon as possible! 1541s are for the birds... I don't know of any other low-end computers that have an 80 column display for this price... the Atari 520st is around $1000 fully decked, while the little Atari only has a 40 column screen. I wouldn't try editing text on a 40 column screen, unless you have a direct line to a psychiatrist and an optometrist.... -- Eric Green {akgua,ut-sally}!usl!elg (Snail Mail P.O. Box 92191, Lafayette, LA 70509) " In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
daveh@cbmvax.cbm.UUCP (Dave Haynie) (10/08/86)
> > If the friend has the cash, a cheap IBM clone may be the answer, at > least for semi-decent text editing (haven't seen a decent editor for > my "toy" C-64 or C-128, but maybe Emacs has me spoiled). For your C128, try VisaWriter or the new PaperBack Writer, or the new version of PaperClip (PaperClip II?); each of these are excellent wordprocessors in their own right. You're not going to get Gosling's or GNU Emacs on a C128 (or anything short of an Amiga with a few extra meg of RAM just for the editor). What kind of "editiong" are you looking for on the C128; I notice you didn't say word processor, but unless you're doing lots of high level programming any one of the mentioned wordprocessors would be better than Emacs for writing text in most cases (I've been using various incarnations of Emacs for around 7 years, som I'm quite familiar with it). > A local dealer is selling the Leading Edge PC with the Leading Edge WP, > monitor, two drives, and 512k of RAM for $1399, which sounds like a > pretty good deal to me (considering that a 128 with two drives and > color monitor would cost $1100, and it's nowhere near as powerful as a > PC-Drone). Actually, the C128 is comparable with a basic PC (and that price sounds a bit high for the C128 system). The processor actually runs quite a bit faster, and is more efficient with memory at that. Of course the PC wins big on disk speed and expandability, and somewhat memory size. But for around $1399 you could beat the PC at speed, expandability, and memory size with a 512K Amiga. > Of course, if your friend wants to get in on the leading edge of > computing, he should get an Amiga :-). ^^^^^^^ Oh, excuse me, you are obviously very intelligent. > -- > > Eric Green {akgua,ut-sally}!usl!elg > (Snail Mail P.O. Box 92191, Lafayette, LA 70509) > > " In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of > people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -- ============================================================================ Dave Haynie {caip,ihnp4,allegra,seismo}!cbmvax!daveh "Techno-Hippie, heathen, designing evil computers" These opinions are my own, though if you try them out, and decide that you really like them, a small donation would be appreciated.