sxnahm@bbncca.ARPA (Steve Nahm) (11/08/83)
Nude recreation is currently a psuedo-secretive activity. Society in
general disapproves of it, and it supports laws which make nude recreation
in some cases illegal, and in almost all cases difficult.
This causes some naturists to worry about being "discovered" by
their textile world associates. It makes access to free beaches
necessarily difficult (to avoid complaints and voyeurs, the latter of which
are probably produced by the societal attitudes), and facilities at
those sites are usually lacking.
This all bothers me. I don't like secretiveness. A 45 minute walk
from my car to my favorite beach can be a pain. And several hundred people
(an average total) at that beach deserve toilets and water, without a 90
minute round trip.
How can the barriers be reduced? While natruism will likely never be the
norm, how can we set it on an equal footing as, say, scuba - a special activity
that some people like.
I'm struck by the German society. Nudity is almost blase, common in ads.
Denmark is similar, nude recreation is acceptable on any beach, anywhere in
the country. Should we be working towards this?
The Naturist Society seems to be working towards this end, but I still
feel more can be done. How did European nations become more accepting of
naturism? (any first hand accounts?) How can we encourage such an
attitude in our society?
Stevepvl@houxh.UUCP (11/11/83)
I was hoping to see somebody else take a first crack at answering this one, but I haven't yet, so I'll see if I can get things rolling. I'm not familiar with the European psyche and would be interested in first-hand accounts, but I suspect that the maturity of European culture is responsible for their generally-more-tolerant attitude toward nudity. I think America still closely connects nudity and sex. A certain maturity is needed to stop sniggering and realize that one can be enjoyed without the other. I suppose that the use of "maturity" is a bit pompous since I'm defining myself to be more mature than those who oppose social nudity. That's not wholly intended, but I can't think of a better word. As to what can be done to promote support for social nudity, participating in net.rec.nude is a good start. Suggesting an appropriate outing with friends (or freely providing directions for those who would rather not have you present)is another. Another good approach is to subscribe to legitimate nudist/naturist literature and leave it out on your coffee table for friends to casually pick up and read. People have to have the concept of social nudity presented to them periodically so that it can truly become an option rather than just a tittilating discussion topic for a moment. Just recently some of my friends have begun to seriously consider joining me in social nudity. I've been surprised because I had been suggesting it for about a year and had just about given up trying. Possibly not surprisingly, Hungarian (European) friends were the first to join us. On the other hand, I'm originally from Kansas... Trying to summarize, I think the problem is really one of separating nudity and sex. By presenting the possibility to friends, it eventually sinks in and social nudity may become more mainstream. I'd certainly like to see others' feelings on the issue including anyone reading this newsgroup who opposes social nudity (or doesn't oppose it, but "would never do it myself"). The question is, "why not?" Pete LaMaster NJ (201)949-0040
dyer@wivax.UUCP (Stephen Dyer) (11/12/83)
I associate the nudist/naturism following with other European health cults, like raw foods, "taking the waters", mud baths, etc. So, I'm just a bit leery about associating with them. Now, granted, all this is pure prejudice, and I've never even SEEN a nudist (as opposed to a naked person). But I thought I'd answer your request for opinions. /Steve Dyer decvax!bbncca!sdyer
trb@masscomp.UUCP (Andy Tannenbaum) (11/12/83)
I was amused by Pete Lamaster's recent comment here about why Americans are less tolerant of nudity than Europeans. He says: I'm not familiar with the European psyche and would be interested in first-hand accounts, but I suspect that the maturity of European culture is responsible for their generally-more-tolerant attitude toward nudity. I think America still closely connects nudity and sex. A certain maturity is needed to stop sniggering and realize that one can be enjoyed without the other. I suppose that the use of "maturity" is a bit pompous since I'm defining myself to be more mature than those who oppose social nudity. That's not wholly intended, but I can't think of a better word. The maturity of European culture? Explain to me how European culture is more "mature" than American culture. Tell me how you can compare something as broad as the maturity of a continents' cultures in this day of rapid travel and communications. Even if we say that Europe does treat sex and nudity with more dignity, that doesn't imply anything about their general level of maturity. A child doesn't get hyped up about sex and nudity even after you explain what's going on, does that imply a higher level of maturity on the child's part? That wasn't really my point, this is my real point (note well). Pete says that the rub is that we Americans closely connect nudity and sex. I'd agree, my question is what difference does that make? In a rational sense, how is nudity good and beautiful whereas sex is anything less? In a rational sense, why should it be bad for nudity to associate itself with sex? If you're going to point your finger at a problem, figure out why sex carries a bad connotation. I sure can't figure it out. Lick that one and nudity falls out in the wash. Note, by the way, that what's "wrong" with sex isn't that you're naked while doing it. People are uptight about any display of physical affection or acquaintance in public, more or less. I know I am to some extent. Andy Tannenbaum Masscomp Inc Westford MA (617) 692-6200 x274
notes@pur-ee.UUCP (11/13/83)
#R:bbncca:-28400:isrnix:16500001:000:914 isrnix!akp Nov 12 03:39:00 1983 You want a first-hand account? I was in Copenhagen during my Seventh Grade year (LONG ago), and two pertinent things come to mind: 1) There were vending machines on the street selling "pornography" (I prefer "erotica" -- In America we've striven for erotica and have often settled for pornography, but that's another story and another newsgroup). 2) Non-sexual nudism was not restricted to beaches: people would sunbathe topless in the public parks, too. Not a thought was given to it. People do that here, too, but only very carefully, and only lying on their stomachs. Not so in Copenhagen. (Of course, I am referring to women.) There you have it. I have heard all the accounts of increased availability of pornography having a direct relationship to decreases in sex crimes, but I'm afraid I wasn't very socially or culturally aware at 13. Sorry. -- Allan Pratt ...decvax!pur-ee!iuvax!isrnix!akp