pvl@houxh.UUCP (07/28/83)
OK all of you closet net.rec.nude readers. Yes, *YOU*. As seemingly
the only active poster to this newsgroup, I received a very good set
of questions that many of you may also have. The following responds to that
set of questions in the hopes of answering those who haven't asked.
Q: Who goes to clothes-optional events? old people? teenagers? kids?
men only? gays only? couples? families? Give a head count and examples.
A: My experiences have been mostly limited to beaches. I've only
been to one "event" myself so I can't directly answer.
The crowd at Sandy Hook, NJ is predominately couples (75%), with
single men second (straight *and* gay) (15%), then families (8%),
and even some single women (2%). Total people on a weekend is
75 to 150. The numbers and ratios are rough.
Age is mostly young adult (20's and 30's) but there are some
people in their late 50's. Generally, beaches have a younger
crowd than nudist resorts where nudity isn't felt to be "daring"
(but see below for comments on safety).
The one event I attended was a hot-tub/introduction session
with a nudist group in California. The attendance there was strictly
couples (because this group *required* men to be "escorted"), but
was of all age groups (20's through 60's)
I would *guess* that the make-up of the attendance at the Tri-State
Metro Naturists events would be comparable to the beach crowd.
Q: How safe are the places? Are the cops waiting with binoculars?
Old men in overcoats? Photography nuts? Hell's Angels?
A: I have been in the presence of officials while nude at Sandy
Hook (Rangers as well as clean-up crews). *NO* problems.
Photography is heavily discouraged by the people there unless
prior consent is obtained. Within groups of friends, photography
is not uncommon. On most weekends, there are over 100 people
on the nude beach. You are at least as safe there (aside from
lack of lifeguards) as on a clothed beach. Due to the generally
"comrade" nature and the way people watch out for each other,
I would guess that one is actually safer on the nude beach.
A fair amount of self-policing goes on.
Slight disclaimer: One time while at the beach on a Wednesday
evening (after work) (only about 5 people on the beach) I *was*
sexually approached by a gay man. I declined and it wasn't a problem.
Q: What are the laws? specifically? as enforced? (area-by-area)
A: Federal law is "nude is not lewd" and the applicable laws are
concerned with lewdness. In other words, on Federal land,
mere nudity is *not* against the law. On private land, you
can, of course, do totally as you please as long as you're
not visible to the general public.
In practice, local officials sometimes go on a binge and
make life tough. I've never been involved, so can't comment.
Last year, a group tried to take some nudity citations to
court from a demonstration at Sandy Hook. The Federal Judge
refused to hear the case, so it was dropped.
Q: What happens to you when you DO get caught? Examples, please.
A: Like I said, I've never been around when trouble was. If
you confine your activities to spots which are generally accepted
for nude use, it is unlikely that you will have problems without
at least being given a chance to dress first. Of course, this
net is nationwide and each county has its own peculiarities.
This particular article has gotten long enough. I'll continue
in a follow-up. If you have something to add or refutation
to contribute, please do so. If you prefer anonymity (although
there's nothing to be afraid of), you can mail to me and
ask me to post it after deleting any identifying references.
Pete LaMasteree461@rochester.UUCP (VLSI class) (07/30/83)
Just a few more comments and answers to some assorted questions. I can't voice an opinion about all issues, as my naturist experience is of foreign origin (and so am I, so please excuse my grammatical errors...). The situation of naturists in my country (Poland) is similar as in the U.S.A., at least this is my impression from what I hear around here. That is: nude beaches are not considered legal, but there are several places where one can expose all skin to the sun without any problems. I think that the basic facts about why there are some people who prefer nude beaches over textile ones are similar everywhere. Q: Why go bare? and why is it so interesting? comfort? sexuality? protest? A: <FLAME ON> "interesting" ???? It is just natural. Free from the false prudence, free from feeling ashamed of your body, free from the convenance of putting on a piece of cloth that serves no real purpose. Feeling ashamed when one is seen naked is not inherited - it is a result of indoctrination that each individual is submitted to in each educational system (parents usually included) in this world. <FLAME OFF> First, I agree with all reasons give by Pete LaMaster. Additional reasons: In 25 years of experiments I failed to discover a method of getting out from water with my swim-pants dry. And I don't like them wet. Also, there is no way to change to dry clothes without getting some sand in them. And even if you manage to avoid the sand when changing your fabric, the sand will get there when you sit down or try to involve in any kind of beach sport. And if it gets there, it'll be itchy (especially THERE). Pete admitted that he likes to look at naked women. Anybody out there who doesn't ??? And I also agree that swimsuits are much sexier than nudity seen on a beach (which is, by the way, seen usually in large quantities). After all, clothing that is not designed to protect from weather, is quite frequently designed to stimulate sexual desires. And this kind of stimulation IS programmed in our genetic structure ... Friendliness: This is one of more important issues. On a clothed beach, what is the usual reaction of a blanket-owner when a kid running by kicks a single grain of sand onto the surgically clean surface of the blanket? Or a reaction to somebody's dog shaking off water? Usually the owner issues such a growl that the poor dog runs away with his tail between legs. The kid, being no equipped with a portable psychical-stress-reliever has nightmares for next two weeks, I imagine. Nothing like this on a nude beach. People are really friendly to others. By the way, speaking about nudity versus sexuality: It appears, that one of frequent factors that restrain people from going to a nude beach is that they are afraid of embarassment if seeing lots of naked bodies would get them aroused. NO WAY. In large quantities it doesn't work. An analogy (maybe not so great): have you ever seen anybody who works in a chocolate factory that would actually eat chocolate candies? Q: How safe are the places? Are the cops waiting with binoculars? Old men in overcoats? Photography nuts? Hell's Angels? From my experience, one can always expect that some weirdo is hiding in bushes nearby with a binocular or other telescopic device. BUT WHO CARES? There are a few hundred people around with their eyes open most of the time anyway, and one doesn't mind their presence. Photographing: as Pete LaMaster has mentioned, within group of friends it is usually OK. And you make friends MUCH FASTER in this society we are talking about. However, if you are new to the particular beach, better leave your telephoto lenses at home. Safety: I'd say you are safer than on a textile beach. If somebody gives you a trouble you can always expect help from your friends around. Lifeguards and cops: we were lucky in our place just outside of Warsaw. Police boat with a crew skilled in lifesaving was usually around. The only way to tell the cops from the other people was that they were more tan. Q: Why are there so few contributors to this newsgroup? How about some articles from others? Well, here you've got a new contributor, signed right below. Krzysztof "not a pantsy" Kozminski (ee461@rochester) PS: "pantsy" is a bad translation from Polish, meaning: "one wearing pants on a beach". Not meant to insult anybody.
pvlm@hou2f.UUCP (P.LAMASTER) (06/04/84)
Since outdoor nude-recreation weather is finally creeping in on us again, I thought the following Nude-Recreation Primer would be appropriate. It is excerpted (without permission) from Lee Baxandall's book: "World Guide to Nude Beaches and Recreation" which I highly recommend (buy a copy at your local bookstore). Taking the Plunge: Have you spent all of your adult years without once going naked in an outdoor, sociable, recreational setting? Going through life as a clothes-compulsive personality can be hard on a person. And trying it is easy. You won't think twice about it once you've broken through the anxiety barrier. You'll find it easier if you first visit a nonproblematic and well- established nude recreation site in the company of friends who are versed in the etiquette of the place. You need not immediately undress if you feel too vulnerable (self- conscious, awkward, embarrased). In your nervousness, however, don't place needless "armor" between yourself and those you encounter - leave cameras, sunglasses, and portable radio at home. At least *seem* at ease. Practice will make appearance reality. Sit quietly at the edge of activity. Look about. Groom, lay back. Be open to a smile, a word, a shared refreshment. Your open demeanor will best say that you are "getting it." After 20 or 30 minutes, you may find yourself no longer acutely aware of being naked. You will eventually find that the almost-nude beaches (with the tiny $50 bathing suits) are much more sexually titillating than a clothes-optional beach. You will easily adapt to this new experience. Just ease yourself into a clothes-optional setting without putting up any more defenses than necessary. Enjoy, Pete LaMaster NJ (201)949-5009 ihnp4!hou2f!pvlm