551rcg@hound.UUCP (R.GANNS) (05/11/84)
With all this talk about pet identification, I have not yet
noticed any mention of the argument against letting pets run
loose, which I consider the height of irresponsibility.
Animals running loose are greatly at risk, will probably be
injured and sick more often, have shorter life spans, and make
hazards and nuisances out of themselves.
It's too easy to rationalize an irresponsible attitude in the
name of letting the animal "be free" or "do its own thing".
As one who has seen the mangled and slowly dying bodies of
many pets lying alonside of the road and has had to deal with
the anxiety and expense of patching up pets hit by cars, mauled
in fights, quilled by porcupines, shot by angry ranchers,
dying on their feet from starvation & disease, etc.,
I urge current and would-be pet owners to take a second hard
look at how they should manage their animals.
Rich Gannsrcb@fortune.UUCP (05/14/84)
I am forced to emphatically agree. I have lost too many dearly loved cats and dogs. My cat sometimes resents me because she can only go out on a leash, and we have to be real careful when opening the front door, but I want her to live a long, long time.
rbc@houxu.UUCP (R.CONNAGHAN) (05/15/84)
On the subject of animals running loose. My wife and I on getting married, bought one cat and recieved another from a friend. I fought strongly that the cats should be let out and be "FREE" and "NATURAL". Thank goodness I lost. I love my cats (and they love me...I think). I will never, never let them run loose. I hope to have them out on a rope this summer. Remember: You beloved cat is no match for a 1965 Chevy. Robert Connaghan AT&T Bell Labs houxu!rbc -- Robert Connaghan AT&T Bell Labs - Holmdel, N.J. houxu!rbc
walsh@ihuxi.UUCP (B. Walsh) (05/15/84)
Yes, I've seen so many beloved FREE and NATURAL kitties and cats free and naturally dead on the roadsides, it makes me shudder. Domestic cats are not wild animals and have no need to wander about. Mine are perfectly happy in the house and go outside only with me in the yard where I can watch them. In fact I have to coax them to come out and they go right back in when the door's opened. And I expect to have them around for a long time. They are not subject to juvenile delinquents (have I heard some horror stories!), wild animals, viscious dogs, or cars and trucks. B. Walsh
archiel@hercules.UUCP (Archie Lachner) (05/16/84)
Here, here! All of the reasons mentioned are good reasons for keeping pets under control. I'll add another. It is just plain rude to let your dog relieve itself on a neighbor's lawn or in a public place. We have a large dog, which we confine to our back yard for this purpose. I am sick and tired of cleaning up after other people's dogs. If the idea of confining your pet bothers you, think about how you would feel if a neighbor came over and defecated on your front lawn. The principle is the same!
alb@alice.UUCP (Adam L. Buchsbaum) (05/16/84)
I have had two cats so far. My late cat (God rest his soul) went outside frequently (at least once a day), usually just before I went to bed (usually choosing to reenter the house some 5 hours later via my bedroom window, but we won't go into that...), and lived to the ripe age of 12. He never got hurt outside (sure, he got into a couple scrapples, but nothing serious; actually, he was sort of a wimp and avoided fights, opting instead to run to the door). My present cat (now 2.5 years old) also enjoys going out (more frequently but for far shorter periods of time). The worst thing that happened to him was that he got stuck in a tree once. Big deal. Cats can handle that. He, too, has gotten into a couple fights, but he is well able to fend off the neighbor cat (who sort of took over our lawn as her territory during my former cat's reign; Tiger was very prompt about recapturing it). Letting him out gives him a chance to get rid of some of his tremendous energy, which would otherwise be vented on the sofa. Inside, he is calm and playful and affectionate. Lettings cats out is not bad (granted, we live on a nice, quiet street (though there is a big, dangerous one nearby). If you keep cats in, you can't let them out later in life, as they won't be able to take care of themselves. Only if you let them out young will they be able to continue to enjoy going outside. Keeping them in deprives them of some very playful times.
rcd@opus.UUCP (Dick Dunn) (05/16/84)
<> > With all this talk about pet identification, I have not yet > noticed any mention of the argument against letting pets run > loose, which I consider the height of irresponsibility. I've been avoiding it consciously - but OK, I'll jump in. If you own a cat and live in/near a city, you're a damn fool (not to mention inhumane) for letting your cats outside. I've been convinced the hard way - I was a damn fool long enough to get one cat killed and another injured to the tune of $n00 (n>2) in repairs. The problem of cars is the most obvious one - but there's also feline leukemia (FeLV) and feline infectious peritonitis (FIP). Both of these are common, contagious, invariably terminal, and have no known immunization or cure (though FeLV is close). They're also very ugly ways to lose an animal. We raise cats, so there's no question of letting ours out - we couldn't afford (in the emotional/professional sense, NOT the monetary sense) to do it even if we wanted to. I'll respond to queries and/or flames. -- ...A friend of the devil is a friend of mine. Dick Dunn {hao,ucbvax,allegra}!nbires!rcd (303) 444-5710 x3086
simon@asylum.DEC (05/17/84)
Path: <...decwrl!rhea!asylum!simon> I have two cats, a 6 year old mutt and a 9 month old Maine Coon cat. When I go to work, I leave a window open for them and they come and go as they please. My landlords have 10 1/2 acres over which the cats can roam. The mutt thinks she owns the property and oversees every inch of it. The Coon cat is a coward and always stays close to home. I would not own a cat I did not feel I could let out. I think cats need the freedom of the outside world. I might feel differently if a cat I owned suffered from ill effects of being out. I have been very lucky. My mutt suffered a raccoon bite on her stomach when she lost a territorial dispute to a raccoon. It was fairly minor and she recovered quickly. The only problems I have encountered is that I have 2 freeloaders. The kitten my landlords own gets thrown out in the morning and comes through my window two minutes later. There is also a barn cat that drops in. Both cats are nice, so I don't mind their dropping by. There is also a raccoon who has lost all fear of entering the house. He stays outside when I am out, but last night (for the second time in two weeks), I got home and found him in the house. He poses no problem if there is cat food in the cats' dishes. However, if the dishes are empty, the raccoon goes for the trash. All of the above has led me to believe that a cat should be allowed to go out. I'm not sure if he should be free to come and go as he pleases, but at least once in a while, I think the cat deserves some freedom. Denise Simon, Digital Equipment Corporation, Hudson, Ma
mmf@sdchema.UUCP (Marsha Fanshier) (05/17/84)
What if you were given the choice of living the life your currently life with all the hazards, heartaches and problems or were offerered the chance to live in a beautiful, large home which you could never leave. Which would you choose? A beautiful, large home which you could never leave would just be a pretty cage. I don't know many humans who want to live in a cage. I don't know of ANY cats who would care for it. I've had many cats in my lifetime and all of them have had the choice of coming and going as they please. They have each and every one of them chosen a balance between the freedom of the outdoors and the shelter of a home. Some have died of injuries or diseases they incurred by being outdoor cats. And everytime I have lost a cat, for whatever reason, it has broken my heart. Yet everytime I walk past my neighbor's home and see their two cats staring out the window at the world (they are always there) or visit a friend and see his two fat, lethargic, depressed cats it tears my heart out. For me the choice is as easy to make regarding my cats as it would be for myself -- without freedom there isn't life -- the choice is to be free.
duhon@ihuxj.UUCP (duhon) (05/18/84)
Some thoughts on cat "cages" and cat "freedom." Some have said that cats should be allowed to "roam free" and not be kept in "cages" (houses/apts). This is not "freedom" and is unnatural. They mention that people are free and so should be their "pets." I hardly see the American people as free, we live in insulated boxes with artificial environments. We travel "safely" in metal boxes with engines and wheels. We work in boxes, safe from the real world. We can neither feed nor clothe ourselves. We depend on a multitude of other specialists for everything. We are trapped by our society. Try isolating yourself from society. You won't be reading this if you are. As for keeping a cat in a "natural" way. If you offer any help to any animal (food, shelter) you are conducting an unnatural act. Wild animals do not need human help. It is human domestication of animals which brings cat, etc. into our lives. It is selfish to take an animal from the wild to amuse one. Cats or chickens, both domesticated, one to feed the emotions and one to feed our stomachs. As for domesticated cats. They don't have a knowledge of what the world is. Each cat learns its own world. There is no preset "world size." Cats spend their entire life learning about their world. It's instinct. If one keeps a cat on 100 acres or more, the cat is still being kept caged if one feeds or otherwise provides "security" for it. If you thinks that the animal should be free, leave it free. Don't pretend that the small world near your home is freedom or in any way more natural than another small world free from many dangers. Many cats are very happy with small worlds. I've seen hundreds and "own" a few. Two in particular have a dread of the world that is outside of their own. Their own includes a small four bedroom home with room to play chase. They have spent their lives exploring their world and continue to do so. Given a larger world they would eventually explore that, too. But they would continue to return "home." They are domesticated and not "free and natural" and can never be. I selfishly have deprived them of that. I can only see two conditions for an animal: free and domesticated. Anything less of total freedom is some from of slavery. One last statement -- I admit that I don't know what a cat thinks, feels, or wants any more that any other creature which isn't a cat. Joey Duhon ihnp4!ihlpm!duhon
derek@sask.UUCP (Derek Andrew) (05/20/84)
x
It is natural for cats to run free in the wilds. Often they
can survive on their own. Today, the cat is a domestic animal.
They enjoy longer lives, decent food and shelter. If you believe
cats should run wild and free, then you must also believe that
their life is too long. My cats stay indoors and we plan on at
least 12 years together.
My sister has owned around ten dogs. One was dognapped (a pure
bred) and one died of old age. All the others were victims of
automobiles. We even had one that would come to a curb, look
around and not cross the street, provided one of us was nearby.
If he saw no one, he would cross the street. He died on a busy
street three blocks away.
Some of you may say that dogs are more prone to accidents because
they are less cautious. I have been taking a survey of the dead
animals as I see them lying at the roadside. Most are cats!
Lastly, you own the cat, not your neighbours. Why do you have
any right to let your cat onto their property. If your neighbour
wanted a pet, they would get one. Believe me, they do not like
it one bit.
I do not have all the freedom that people say my cat should have.
Hell, I just learned that UNC gives their programmers 8 by 10
foot rooms and 3 meals a day. I do not see why my cats should
be allowed so much freedom, at least not until they understand
property values and automobiles well enough to drive them.
I do not believe in collars either. There is the danger of
stranglation. The cats only go out with parental supervision.
You would not let a four year old out by himself would you?
Cats do not understand the environment any better. Sure they
fear dogs and other natural enemies, but they do not understand
cars.
--
Derek Andrew, ACS, U of Saskatchewan, Saskatoon Saskatchewan, Canada, S7N 0W0
{ihnp4 | utah-cs | utcsrgv | alberta}!sask!derek 306-343-2638 0900-1630 CSTrcd@opus.UUCP (05/22/84)
>What if you were given the choice of living the life your currently >life with all the hazards, heartaches and problems or were offerered >the chance to live in a beautiful, large home which you could never >leave. Which would you choose? A beautiful, large home which you >could never leave would just be a pretty cage. I don't know many humans >who want to live in a cage. I don't know of ANY cats who would care >for it. This would be just irrelevant emotionalism if it weren't for the fact that it kills so many cats every year--as it is, it's cruel ignorance. The average lifespan of a cat which lives outdoors is less than half that of an indoor cat. Our cats all live indoors, and believe me, they don't suffer much. (If they're annoyed at being denied something, they let us know post haste - if they needed to go outside, we'd hear about it.) Would you like to live in a world like the one in which you were born and brought up - or one in which there is a very real possibility that you may be smashed to bloody death by something entirely beyond your understanding? (How's that for a cheap/emotional reply?!) -- ...A friend of the devil is a friend of mine. Dick Dunn {hao,ucbvax,allegra}!nbires!rcd (303) 444-5710 x3086
jbf@ccieng5.UUCP (05/22/84)
I don't think dogs should run loose. Cats should. This is not a question where there is a wrong and a right answer. The cat's risk is less if it is kept at home. (But if a fire should start while you are out, you have just devised a fiendish torture for your pet) Personally, I would rather give my cat a choice. We had a cat in Guam that could come and go as he liked. We kept a bowl of dry food for him in a bowl in the kitchen, which would last weeks since he was perfectly capable of feeding himself on the ambient rats and the neighbor's chickens (no complaints from the neighbor -- he let the chickens run wild, and expected to lose a baby chick now and then). He was a free companion, and I would never have considered choosing for him whether or not he wanted to live his life in a safe place. He did catch pneumonia once... Azhrarn System going down, will continue some other time -- "Some people are eccentric, but I am just plain odd" Reachable as ....allegra![rayssd,rlgvax]!ccieng5!jbf
edhall@randvax.UUCP (Ed Hall) (05/29/84)
+ I think it depends upon how a cat is raised. Some cats I've known who have been life-long indoor cats are actually afraid to go outside. Outdoor cats sometimes seem nervous and demand to go out after only being inside for an hour or two. There is one thing I've noticed, and I'd be interested in hearing if others have made the same observation: cats are rarely hit by cars on streets where cars don't go faster than about 25MPH or so, even with lots of traffic, but frequently get hit on 45MPH thoroughfares. I suspect this is because cats mis-judge the speed of faster cars. (This conclusion based on casual observation.) I've lived with outdoor cats most of my life (until recently), all of whom used to love to scamper under (parked) cars and bolt across streets. The only time one ever got hit was when we lived on a street where cars regularly drove in excess of 35MPH. (The cat survived, BTW, though she became a mostly indoor cat until we moved to a quieter area.) -Ed Hall decvax!randvax!edhall
maggie2@iwpba.UUCP (maggie2) (05/30/84)
There have been a lot of articles about pets rights to run free - but how about the people's rights? Loose animals get into garbage, tease the pets in your yard, scare motorists to death by running out in front of them, especially at night (this is really dangerous if your first instinct is to swerve to avoid them), and in the case of cats - sometimes hide in your car's engine area. I sometimes feel bad that my cats aren't allowed to run free, but there are *a lot* of people who dislike pets, especially cats, and I haven't the right to force my pets company on them!
gary@rochester.UUCP (Gary Cottrell) (05/31/84)
I have read most of the articles about this, and so far haven't seen anyone qualify their opinions based on the type of place where they live. Certainly country, some suburban, and even quiet city locales indicate different (and less restrictive) considerations on letting your cat run free. I wouldn't let my dog run free practically anywhere, for that matter, but I think cats can safely be let loose in many areas. gary cottrell
bytebug@pertec.UUCP (06/03/84)
> Animals running loose are greatly at risk, will probably be > injured and sick more often, have shorter life spans, and make > hazards and nuisances out of themselves. I agree! My indoor cat lived to the ripe age of 19, which I attribute mostly to the tender loving care he got while being indoors. Not that he never saw the outside world - the family would walk him on a leash, and he was allowed supervised roams of our fenced back yard without a leash, and he got plenty of fresh air while tethered on a leash outside when we weren't able to supervise. Especially in his later years, he wouldn't have been able to deal with the "real" world, and I don't believe he would have been better off if he had that freedom. > What if you were given the choice of living the life your currently > life with all the hazards, heartaches and problems or were offerered > the chance to live in a beautiful, large home which you could never > leave. Which would you choose? A beautiful, large home which you > could never leave would just be a pretty cage. I don't know many > humans who want to live in a cage. I don't know of ANY cats who would > care for it. As to this argument, I'm fairly certain that I'd choose the large home that I could never leave if I were given that choice knowing the alternative was going out in the "real" world and having a one in five chance of returning safely. Perhaps the odds aren't stacked that heavily against cats, but I'm sure that they have nowhere near the chance of surviving in the outside world that we humans who can fend better for ourselves. If I'm hit by a car, I have a h*ll of a better chance of surviving than a cat, since generally people are taken to hospitals, and cats are left at the side of the road. Not that I think cats can survive in a cage. I currently don't have a cat since I live alone, and often work late, and think that keeping a cat shut up all day in an apartment would be a dis-service to the cat as well as myself. Keeping pets involves the same sort of responsibilities as having children. Would you shut your child up in an apartment alone all day? Or would you let him run "free" without supervision? If you've chosen either, you probably have no business with pets *or* children.
kitten@pertec.UUCP (06/03/84)
One point that I haven't seen brought up yet is that The City and Suburbia pose other hazards to loose cats (and dogs) besides cars, large(r) dogs and cruel children (and sometimes 'adults'). Many years ago we had two brother cats from the same litter that we had as outdoor cats. They were always together. One day my mother was the bearer of bad news that one of the cats was found dead on a neighbor's lawn, and the other was in critical condition. The had romped on a neighbor's lawn that had been chemically (as opposed to naturally) fertilized. It got on their fur, and when they tried to clean themselves, they ingested it. The one that survived had chemical burns down his innards. I remember those ghastly blisters in his mouth, throat, and on his tongue. It took most of our Christmas money to fix him up, and not long after that he went wild, not recognizing any of us. I wouldn't be surprised if some amount of brain damage had been a major contributing factor. Animals are innocent. They have no way of knowing what they're getting into where Man has intervened. Cars are the major problem, but there are a multitude of others that a caring owner should not expose their pet to. The only exception I can think of is a working cat (mouser) on a farm (or just a pet cat on a farm) were it is really only semi- domesticated. The cat/dog/whatever *can't* make these decisions for itself, the owner *must* make it for him/her, and hopefully make a responsible decision with the pet's best interest in mind. Think of it as disaplining a child, it may hurt, or seem mean, but it is best for the child. As for the spay/neuter issue, the excuse for allowing the pet to "have a normal sex life" is ridiculous. Lengthy couplings are not a safe thing to do in the wild, when the senses are temporarily otherwise occupied. Animals act on pure insinct, the females get nothing out of it, the males get little. It is extremely short-lived and strictly functional. Only a few of the great apes and man derive 'pleasure' from it. 'Nuff said for now...
edhall@rand-unix.UUCP (Ed Hall) (06/07/84)
I guess there is no one `right' answer here. I've known and lived with both indoor and outdoor cats. Some of the latter are very wary and stick close to home: `yard cats'. These are the sort of cats I'd feel comfortable with allowing outside to scamper about a suburban back yard. On the other hand, if a cat likes to roam a lot, it just doesn't belong in a suburban environment. And no outdoor cat belongs in the city. -Ed Hall decvax!randvax!edhall