afg@hw3b.UUCP (Golnik A.F. HW 256 ) (08/21/84)
I am planning to have my dog professionally obedience trained.
The dog is a 9 month old Newfoundland (no papers, he came from a
humane society) named Blackie, because he looks and walks like a
black bear. I have already taught him the basic commands of sit,
stay, come, etc., but am having difficulty with the more advanced
commands, probably due to the help of my kids while I'm at work.
The information I am looking for is:
1. Is there anyone in the Chicago area that can
personally recommend a obedience school, and
2. Is there anyone out there who has had their dog
professionally trained and could comment on group
vs. individual training, and possibly the type or
method used, and also any other information you
think might be helpful.
By the way, I already did contact the AKC for this information
and was politely told that since my dog has "no papers" the
trainers and kennels they usually recommend would not deal with
me. If the interest warrants I'll post a summary of the replies.
Thanks in advance,
Al Golnik
AT&T Technologies
Hawthorne Works
:hania@rabbit.UUCP (Hania Gajewska) (08/22/84)
The AKC dealt with you in its usual stuck up way, and
they were incorrect, or at least didn't give you the whole story.
Here are some hints:
What you want is to find a dog club which offers obedience classes.
Although such clubs are usually AKC sanctioned, their obedience
classes are open to ALL dogs, regardless of papers or lineage.
The classes are run in a group situation, with an instuctor in the
center, and the dogs, with their owners, around in a circle.
In a beginners class, which is what you want, you will teach your dog
to heel, sit, lie down, stay, come, and stand for examination
by a stranger. How well you and your dog learn these commands
depends, of course, on how much you practice; the suggested time
is usually two fifteen minute sessions per day. Classes usually
meet once a week.
Past the beginners' class, there is usually pre-novice, then novice.
These two classes don't teach any additional skills; rather, they
polish the skills learned in beginners. (Many people who do well in
beginners skip the pre-novice class). By the end of the novice class,
your dog should be able to do all the above (including heeling) off the leash.
Past the novice class, there are other classes (open and utility)
wich teach harder skills: jumping, scent discrimination, retrieving.
Although the ultimate aim of all these classes is obedience competition,
the introductory classes taught by most clubs are aimed at pet owners
who want a well-behaved companion. Many of these pet owners "catch the bug"
(obedience is fun for both dog and owner!) and later go on to exhibit
their dogs in obedience competition. AKC sanctioned shows do not allow
mixed-breed dogs in obedience (personally I think this is grossly unfair,
and should be changed); however, they do have provisions for dogs such
as yours, who are apparently pure-bred, but with no papers. If you, too,
find yourself loving obedience, you can get your dogs "listed" with the
AKC as a Newf; this would give you the right to compete in their stuck-up
obedience shows (unfortunately they have a virtual monopoly on the game).
But I digress...
I know of quite a few people who have had their dogs "professionally" trained
by other people -- I don't knoow of a single case where this has worked out.
The most important part of the training is to have the dog tune in to you,
and to improve the communication between you and the dog (all dogs know
how to sit or lie down -- the key is to have your dog do it when you want him
to do it). If you have a stranger train the dog, the dog might learn to
respond to the trainer, and might even listen to you a bit, but never as well.
So I really strongly recommend an obedience club. My second choice would
be classes run in the manner described above by private individuals who are
obedience trainers and exhibitors themselves. The only difference
between these and the club-run classes is who gets the money -- the club
or the individual. Also, in my experience, the club-run classes have been
of slightly higher quality. (I am biased -- I have taught some).
Some community education programs run by towns around here have such classes;
those, too are equivalent. In all of these, whether they are good or bad
depends on the instructor; if you are unlucky -- try another one.
Just stay away form the professional trainers who advertise in the yellow
pages that they can do it for you.
You can expect to pay between $35 and $60 for a series of eight classes.
("Professional trainers" charge hundreds, sometimes thousands, of dollars).
I think you would really like these classes -- judging from your posting.
Now, how to find one. Sigh. I would call up the AKC (I know, I know...)
and ask them again -- don't mention the papers. Or just ask them for an
all-breed club in your area -- those often have obedience classes.
If you find it distasteful to deal with them (I wouldn't blame you, after
your first contact) -- send me mail or call me, and I will do some snooping
for you.
Hania Gajewska
allegra!research!hania
(201) 582-3720sam@rocksvax.UUCP (Sam Houston) (09/06/84)
I'll second the approval of the Koehler method. I bought the book, and followed it (at least through on-leash) with my present German Shepard (female). It may seem cruel to some, but this dog *obeys*; even two years after her formal training. My only regret is I became busy elsewhere (read lazy!) and never finished the off-leash training. sam
bmg@tekecs.UUCP (Barbara Gniewosz Theus) (09/19/84)
I've seen a number of articles for the Koehler method. If my memory serves me correctly, this is the method of praise for good behaviour and punishment for bad. My opinion is that you should treat your pet like you would a 6 month old baby. No baby (read pet) can understand why you are hurting them. I believe most (99%) pets can be properly trained without ever using anything but love, repetition, and firmness. The most discipline needed is for yourself, not your pet. I have a 130 pound Malamute who is our 'baby' and is spoiled rotten. Yet when I let her know I intend on making her obey me (by tone of voice), she is a very well trained dog. Unfortunately this is basically on leash only, but that is because I never continued the training. I quit the lessons when she was only 7 months, yet 2 years later she is doing fine. I guess there's a lot to be said for a dog growing up. A book I would recommend is 'good dog bad dog'. Sorry, I don't remember the author. Barbara Theus tektronix!tekecs!bmg