smith%nrl-aic@sri-unix.UUCP (07/29/83)
From: Russ Smith <smith@nrl-aic> A recent note on the net re a bad mdm711.com somewhat underscores the fact that it sure would be nice to be able to get mdm711.ASM. Is there a GOOD reason why that isn't around? I can understand not wanting a zillion new versions floating around but, as has been mentioned before, some of us DO like to add our own stuff, or, as in my case, clean it up and install other cpu (i.e. z80) code. Russ (Smith@nrl-aic)
CSTROM@mit-mc@sri-unix.UUCP (07/30/83)
From: Charlie Strom <CSTROM@mit-mc> MDM711.ASM is indeed available all over the country on a number of RCPM's. It mammoth size (about 80K squeezed) has discouraged wider distribution. Irv Hoff is about to release MDM712 this weekend; the update adds MCI-SPRINT-etc. capability to the smartmodem overlay and has a few minor modifications, mostly specific to peculiar hardware installations such as the Osborne. In addition, there are several new overlays. You might want to wait for MDM712.ASM - I am sure that it will be distributed along with the package. -Charlie
W8SDZ@mit-mc@sri-unix.UUCP (07/30/83)
From: Keith Petersen <W8SDZ@mit-mc> MDM711.AQM (the squeezed version of MDM711.ASM) is available on MIT-MC in AR100:W8SDZ;MDM711 AQM. I did announce this to Info-Cpm some time ago but guess you missed it. Since the source code is not really required anymore to get the program running, it was felt that it would only confuse the issue to have it generally available. Many people don't read instructions before downloading files. The instructions say not to bother with the ASM file because all the options are in the user overlays. If you "clean it up" and "add Z80 code" (why?) you'll be out of step with MDM712 when it becomes available. If you have some complaints/suggestions/modifications to submit, send them to INFO-MODEM7@MIT-MC and I'll see that Irv Hoff gets them for inclusion in the next version. Alternatively, you can call him on the phone (he isn't on the net) at (415) 948-2166, or contact him on CompuServe's CP-MIG where he is VERY active and egar to answer questions. --Keith
smith@nrl-aic@sri-unix.UUCP (07/30/83)
From: Russ Smith <smith@nrl-aic> Being out of step doesn't bother me too much, apparently I usually am... I only recently started accessing the ARPANET hence missed your note on AR100 (AR100 isn't in the last DIRLST for example). I'm looking for something that works for my particular machine. Whether it's transportable to someone else's (or even to any other machine I get in the future) really doesn't matter at this point. I DO, however, get real enjoyment from taking something good (such as mdm711) and modifying it in ways which make it a "better" program. For example, I dislike most programs' user interfaces. Whether I'll like mdm711's will be seen. If not, I'll change it to be screen oriented in a style which meets whatever criteria that's pleasant to ME, perhaps with pertinent status info displayed as well as graphic oriented menus. This is something I'd do just for the Hollywood aspect of the resulting process. Perhaps I'd take the output and send it to my 512x480 point plot display. Perhaps I'll just take the algorithms behind the program, write them in MY idea of good C language, and include all the bells and whistles which I think are nice. Whatever...for these and other reasons I like to have my hands on the source of programs I use. The fact that what I end up with wouldn't be mdm711 is irrelevant. I WOULD end up with a program which would allow my current system to access other systems using the same protocol and whose basic algorithms had withstood the tests of time. This is what's important to me; not that I have the actual same program as others, but only that I can communicate effectively with others and at the same time have a user interface which appeals to ME, not necessarily only to the original designer. MDM711 is the latest and greatest of the many MODEM programs, so that's the source I feel would be best to start off from. Other programs may use identical basic algorithms, but maybe mdm711 does something else better. Maybe I'll be COMPLETELY satisfied with the way mdm711 is and not change it at all. That's for ME to decide, though, not for others who believe they know what's good for me. Sorry about the rather rambling reply, it's just that the statement about "confusing the issue" touched a raw nerve. It may be that endusers of publicly distributed (and publicly touted) software may want to make their own decision on whether to be confused. In conclusion, to assume that someone who doesn't agree with instructions on installing mdm711 hasn't read the same also is a mistake. Indeed, I accessed and read just about everything I could on the system in hopes that someone had slipped in a copy of the source. I, of course, didn't access the "hidden" (to this naive user, at least) AR100. The contents of this note to the contrary, I truly appreciate the rapid and helpful responses I received over the net re my original plea. (I'd be willing to bet that more than a few other users of the net also appreciate the responses...) Needless to say, I'll be doing some happy hacking now that I can get my greedy little hands on the source for mdm711. Thanks to all (in particular to KP at MIT-MC), Russ (Smith@nrl-aic)
W8SDZ%mit-mc@sri-unix.UUCP (07/31/83)
From: Keith Petersen <W8SDZ@mit-mc> Russ, my comments about being out of step were made with the assumption that you, like others, might release an "updated version" of MDM7xx. As an RCPM Sysop, I am concerned with trying to coordinate things so that two people don't do this at the same time. That's why I made the comment I did. As it turns out, if you want to be truely "up-to-date" you'll want to wait a day or two until I've had the chance to upload MDM712, which was just released today. It has enough improvements and bug fixes that you'll want it instead of MDM711. If "C" language is what you want, don't re-invent the wheel. We have AR60:CPM;CMODEM 13C written in BDS-C and AR43:CPM;UMODEM 33C written in Unix C. My point is that I am one of the coordinators for trying to keep some order in the Public-Domain CP/M software world and if you intend to share your efforts with others (I hope you do, your ideas sound great), then please let me help guide you to what's available and please keep me informed about what you're working on that might be released to the public. I'll see to it that word gets to the SYSOP Clearinghouse RCPM system that we have set up specifically for this purpose. The AR100 does not show up in the CPM director because it's in the W8SDZ directory and was intended as a temporary place for these squeezed files (the whole LBR is there too as a binary file). Anytime you have questions about the CPM; directory or don't see what you want there, please send a note to INFO-CPM-REQUEST@BRL rather than the whole list, and Frank or I will get back to you (usually within one day). --Keith
goldfarb.ucf-cs@rand-relay@sri-unix.UUCP (08/07/83)
<<<FLAME ALERT -- LONG ONE>>>
Keith,
I am once again incensed enough about the MODEM7 distributionitis
issue to revive the horse we beat to death a few months back. My ire has
nothing to do with your correspondence with Russ; it is a reaction to your
announcement of the impending release of MDM712 a mere 29 days after MDM711
was released. Since you have accepted the role of coordinator of RCP/M
and public-domain software to a certain extent, I once again appeal to you
to help cause more control to be exercised over future releases of MODEM7.
Here is a little history of the most recent releases along with
the intervals between them:
MDM712 7/30/83
29 days
MDM711 7/01/83
9 days
MDM710 6/22/83
26 days
MDM709 5/27/83
12 days
MDM708 5/15/83
34 days
MDM707 4/11/83
7 days
MDM706 4/04/83
My original appeal called for a moratorium on new features and a
quarterly release schedule with intervening bug fixes in the form of diffs
or DDT instructions. I, too, maintain an RCP/M system here which, while not
as active or widely-known as yours, still has "customers" who are
knowledgeable and who want the lastest version of everything. I don't
blame them for that so I try to keep current. But sometimes I will no
sooner have one version of MODEM7 on the system than another is released.
This gets old rapidly. Not only do I have to procure and upload the basic
files such as MDM711.ASM (yes, Keith, the source -- we can cry about not
needing it until we're blue in the face, but people still want it),
MDM711.COM, etc., but also I must do the same with ALL the overlay files
which are changed in a miniscule fashion each time the package is upgraded.
There were 21 of these when I last looked.
Granted, the new features have been attractive and desirable. But
in some cases there has been insufficient time for even a decent alpha
test. The bugs are frequetly caught during beta testing which is done by the
end users (contrary to the notion of what a beta test should really be).
If Berkeley managed bsd Unix like MODEM7 is managed, I'd have to install
and debug a new operating sytem here every month or so. (OK, perhaps this
is an unfair comparison -- maybe we should look at Rick Conn's excellent
management of the ZCPR2 project as a better benchmark.)
Let me restate the points I'd like to see addressed by this group:
1) A suitable time frame for major releases. If we could
cause releases to be made no more frequently than quarterly
it would allow time for sufficient alpha and beta testing.
It would also ease the burden on RCP/M sysops.
2) Interim bug fixes and *minor* enhancements through the use
of diffs and DDT patches. If the program is well tested
and features are well thought out, there shouldn't be too
many of these.
3) Generalization of the main program and the configuration
modules such that each overlay file does not have to be
regenerated for every new release of MODEM7. As I
mentioned above, there are now 21 overlays for various
hardware configurations. This number will surely grow
as time goes on.
4) An end to the discussion about whether the source for
MODEM7 should be distributed. I believe it has been shown
that users do want it.
<<<FLAME OFF -- MY KEYBOARD RUNNETH OVER>>>
Yes, I realize that we're dealing with public domain software that
represents the fruits of Irv Hoff's unpaid avocational efforts for which
he is seldom thanked. Don't get me wrong, Irv has done a TREMENDOUS job
and he deserved to be thanked profusely for his labors. I believe he has
finally refined MODEM7 to the point where it is robust enough and
sufficiently generalized to make it an important part of every CP/M user's
software library. Indeed, with the release of MDM711 I have put my money
where my mouth is, junking MODEM216 and finally joining the rest of the world.
Also, I am not scorning your efforts on behalf of the CP/M community. Your
tireless work is infrequently recognized yet you continue to spend much
time to keep the rest of us happy. If it seems you are the target of this
flame, I apologize for that. I merely want to see if we can jointly (all
of us) get a handle on the release situation and approach future releases
with a modicum of restraint and control. I believe this will lighten the
load on Irv, yourself, and the rest of the MODEM7 distributors and users.
Ben Goldfarb
ARPA: goldfarb.ucf-cs@Rand-Relay
uucp: {decvax,duke}!ucf-cs!goldfarb
P.S.
I'd appreciate it if someone could post this on CompuServe where Irv can
see it.