CS.Temin@UTEXAS-20.ARPA (06/12/84)
From: Aaron Temin <CS.Temin@UTEXAS-20.ARPA> It seems criminal that Irv Hoff was able to take mdm7 out of the public domain, but I haven't followed all the discussions - maybe there was a good reason. However, what stops Mr. Hoff, or someone else, from doing the same with modm700? There seem to be ways to keep things private (e.g. copyrights) but how does one keep things public? aaron -------
DBrown@HI-MULTICS.ARPA@sri-unix.UUCP (06/13/84)
Well, I shan't comment on the legality of claiming copyright of
previously published material: it varies with whether you adhere to the
Berne conventions or not.
However, copyright can be used to keep a published work available, if
not really in the public domain.
(1) Claim copyright on your own behalf, and that of the
previous authors
(2) Make use of the program contingent on acceptance of a
contractual obligation
(3) Make the contract enforce the accessability requirements
you desire.
The following is at least close to correct in Canada:
Copyright (C) 1965, 1967, 1983 XXX.YYY
A free and unrestricted licence to use, modify and
distribute this program is granted, subject to acceptance
of the following requirements:
That this notice appear unchanged in the program
source and executable
That the program be distributed in full source
to any further recipients, and
That .... <whatever you want here>.
This does NOT prevent a person from claiming copyright on extensions,
or refusing to release his copyrighted parts to the public domain. It
does keep him from from simply claiming that "no-one owned it so I took
it".
--dave (unix hack on a bun) brown
DBrown @ HI-MULTICS.ARPA
watbun!drbrown @ watmath.UUCPPOURNE@Mit-Mc.ARPA (06/14/84)
From: Jerry E. Pournelle <POURNE@Mit-Mc.ARPA> In the United States, anything which has been published without copyright notice, or published with copyright notice plus message to effect that it is released into public domain is in public domain; claims to the contrary are not going to be enforced by courts and authorities. The case where a public domain work is modified and then copyright is attempted is cloudy. Take "My Fair Lady": this is of course drawn from Bernard Shaw's now public domain Pygmalian; but of course it is also an original work. When first done Pygmalian was not public domain, and license fees were paid to the Shaw estate. Now the original is PD but My Fair lady decidedly is not, as you will find if you try to put it on without obtaining permission. Susanna is an opera drawn from the Bible which is certainly PD; but Susanna is not. A copyright is no more than a license to sue (under certain circumstances); there are supposed criminal penalties for willfull violation of copyright but in practice these are seldom applied.
cem@intelca.UUCP (Chuck McManis) (06/14/84)
Irv Hoff did *NOT* take MDM7 out of the public domain.
What Irv did was to enhance MDM730, (who hasn't) and copyright the
enhancements as MDM740. Which is NOT public domain. However, MDM730
is and always will be and you get the source to it, so you can still
get MDM730 and add Irvs enhancements (write your own code for them)
and have a functional equivalent of MDM740. What he also seems to
have tried is to trademark the MDM7xx name. If I read my trademark law
correctly, there is no provision for trademarks with ambigous characters
in them, (how about Axxxxxx (TM) :-) ) He could probably trademark MDM7
though if it had never been in the public domain, since it has I doubt
he could explain his reasons for wanting trademark protection on a
product he originally donated to the national trust. So I think all
Irv has done is seriously dampened if not killed off the MDM7 line.
Since if I am only going to get a .COM file to patch I would rather
get MEX which has still more enhancements than MDM740.
The bottom line is NEVER make your programs "public domain." Always
copyright them and if you want them to freely prosper you can
add a non profit copy clause in the release and allow the standard
forms of distribution (RCP/Ms, Simtel-20, etc) Then if XYZ Corp
begins to sell you're utility with their new system and don't
pay you royalties you can sue them. If it is public domain then
anyone can sell a copy of it without so much as mentioning the author.
(how many royalties does the Beethoven estate get for sales of
copies of his scores ? , or Lauren for his programs that are P.D.)
Anyway the copyright expires after a time anyway and it becomes
P.D. By default.
--
-- Chuck McManis Disclaimer : All opinions expressed herein are my
own and not those of my employer, my
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