STORK@MIT-MC.ARPA (Eric Stork) (04/07/85)
:kill
:kill
:mail info-cpm%amsaa
A week or so ago, I asked the net about the feasibility of
someone who has an APPLE IIe doing some draft typing for me, and
then transferring the material to my KAYPRO for finalizing, The
key issues were:
. Can one use something like UNIFORM to read APPLE II
disks of the KAYPRO?
. Other problems or solutions?
I got a number of responses, including some requests for a
summary of responses. I have summarized the comments, eliminated
most of the inevitable redundancy, and am submitting the end
result for the use of those who may be interested.
In a nutshell, EXCEPT for modem or direct RS-232 transfer of
ASCII files, and the subsequent manipulation of those files with
a filter like FILTEX, it's not feasible to move drafts from APPLE
to CP/M systems, and back. Even with modem-like approaches it's
cumbersome.
Thanks to all who contributed their insights and experiences,
Eric
Summary of APPLE <--> CP/M Responses
1.0. Is there any way I can read text files off an Apple II
disk, using a Kaypro II? Is there a formatting program that will
do that?
Unfortunately, you cannot read or write Apple disks on a CP/M
system like the Kaypro. The reason for this is that Apple uses a
HARD SECTORED "maverick" format unlike every other system out
there which uses SOFT sectoring (which is what makes programs
like MediaMaster and Uniform possible).
It should be possible to write the RWTS (read-write-track-sector)
code that resides at BD00-BFFF in an APPLE ][ in 8080 code and
make it run in a KAYPRO. The hard part would be to get the
documentation which describes how you access the disk directly
from 8080 code in the KAYPRO. You would need to know how to turn
on the motor, how to check for write protect, how long to wait
after turning on the motor before reading, what the data really
looks like when you do a read (bit-by-bit read) and how you
define which disk drive you want to access. I do not know if
this information is available for the KAYPRO.
Apple diskettes use a SOFT sectored scheme, but the data is
encoded using a GCR technique instead of the more popular MFM
method. Most systems (if not all) would not be able to read
them.
Apple *does not* use a hard sectored format. Its uses a 16
sector format which *does not* use the index hole, thus soft
sectored. Software is able to find any given track/sector
without the aid from the hardware.
In truth, the apple is 'softer' sectoring than anybody else - it
doesn't look at the sector hole(s) *AT ALL*. Therefore one can
use in the apple either soft or hard sectored disks providing
that you format them first. It is this 'softer' sectoring that
makes the apple weird - all other normal machine do look at the
index hole - a hard sectored disk drives them wild.
2.0. Is it economical to get my potential typist a CP/M card for
her Apple? Are they still made? Where and by whom? Costs?
There is no way to read an apple disk in a Kaypro disk drive,
with or without CP/M in the Apple. The Apple hardware uses a
very unique coding scheme for putting bits on the disk. About
the only practical thing to do is use modems in both machines,
and transfer the files over the phone line. This is practical
and easy. (Or if the machines are close together, you can cable
the serial ports on the two machines directly together without
modems. This takes a little knowledge and the willingness to
wire up a special connector.)
Apple's method of terminating a line in a text file is just a
carriage return -- with no linefeed. So when you type the file
out in CP/M, every line will be overwritten. Solve this by
processing the file with FILTEX (a public domain program) or some
other utility that inserts a LF after every orphan CR. Likewise,
a CP/M text file transferred to an Apple will contain that
*normal* LF and appear double-spaced when listed.
Another potential problem is that not all word processors on the
Apple II (or any other machine) use the same kind of files. Some
Apple II word processors use Apple DOS 3.3 or ProDos "standard"
text files, but others use their own unique file format. Some
achieve protection by screwing up the DOS and writing the whole
disk in a wierd way. So it matters which word processor she
uses!
I have transferred files from an APPLE ][ to a KAYPRO using MEX
on the KAYPRO and ZPRO on the APPLE ][ over a null modem at
speeds of up to 9600 baud. It worked beautifully. I initially
did it using modems at 300 baud and a phone, but found that the
phone line is unnecessary if you have a seriel card in the APPLE
][, you can easily use a null modem cable. A null modem cable
can easily be built. It is simply a pair of db-25 connectors
(Males usually) that have the following pin connections: Pin 1 to
pin 1, pin 2 to pin 3 at the other end, pin 3 to pin 2 at the
other end, pin 7 to pin 7, pin 6 to pin 20 at the other end and
pin 20 to pin 6 at the other end. The idea is to swap the send
and receive lines and the dtr and cts lines. If you have an
APPLE ][ super serial card, then you don't need to build
anything. You can set the configuration block to the TERMINAL
mode and use your existing db-25 cable. Read the book and you'll
see that this configuration is the same as having a null modem
cable.
It is also possible to use MEX, MODEM7, or any other
xmodem-capable program to do quick APPLE ][ to KAYPRO transfers.
I like using MEX because it has wild card capability.
If the files you need to transfer are ascii, rather than binary,
it is possible to use PIP on both ends to transfer them from the
APPLE ][ to the KAYPRO. this is not the rpeferred method,
however. There is no checksum or CRC if you use PIP.
If the files are DOS text files you can use ASCII EXPRESS to
transfer them out the seriel port.
Two popular CP/M cards are available for the Apple: the
"Softcard" by Microsoft and the "Appli-Card" by PCPI. They sell
for about $275.00. Each card comes with a utility disk that
includes a program to convert DOS files to CP/M.
On the CP/M card add-on... just went through this with a
customer in an "attempt" to upgrade his Apple. Take a look at
the December issue of Byte Magazine - there's a multi-page review
of these things in the back. But changing to a CP/M card won't
solve a disk compatibility problem. Since they all use that
Apple drive, they're constrained to use the hardware and firmware
designed to drive 'em.
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