STORK@mit-mc.ARPA (Eric Stork) (04/02/85)
Need some advice... I'm considering having someone do some draft typing for me. They have and Apple II. Question: Is there any way I can read text files off an Apple II disk, using a Kaypro II? Is there a formatting program that will do that? Is it economical to get my potential typist a CP/M card for her Apple? Are they still made? Where and by whom? Costs? Thanks for advice. Pls reaspond direct to STORK @ MIT-MC. If anyone has interest in the responses, let me know and I'll summarize and forward. Eric
ghenis.pasa@XEROX.ARPA (04/02/85)
Unfortunately, you cannot read or write Apple disks on a CP/M system like the Kaypro. The reason for this is that Apple uses a HARD SECTORED "maverick" format unlike every other system out there which uses SOFT sectoring (which is what makes programs like MediaMaster and Uniform possible). However, there is a way to get those text files over to the Kaypro, and it actually makes more sense in your situation. What you need is a modem and communications software on both machines: then file transfer will be as easy as a phone call (well, almost) If you don't already have the software, the public domain program MODEM7 is available for both the Kaypro and the Apple (you can get them through your local user groups)
rbloom@apg-1.ARPA (Robert Bloom AMSTE-TOI 3775) (04/03/85)
wrongo - the apple use soft-sectoring (not hard sectoring) the only hard sector machines left are very old Heaths and NorthStars (I've got a NorthStar and an apple both) In truth, the apple is 'softer' sectoring than anybody else - it doesn't look at the sector hole(s) *AT ALL*. Therefore one can use in the apple either soft or hard sectored disks providing that you format them first. It is this 'softer' sectoring that makes the apple weird - all other normal machine do look at the index hole - a hard sectored disk drives them wild. The end result is the same in anycase--> use a commo program. -bob bloom
ihom@SDCSVAX.ARPA (04/04/85)
> Is there any way I can read text files off an Apple II disk, using a > Kaypro II? Is there a formatting program that will do that? >> Unfortunately, you cannot read or write Apple disks on a CP/M system >> like the Kaypro. The reason for this is that Apple uses a HARD SECTORED >> "maverick" format unlike every other system out there which uses SOFT >> sectoring (which is what makes programs like MediaMaster and Uniform >> possible). >> What you need is a modem and communications software on both machines: >> then file transfer will be as easy as a phone call (well, almost) Apple *does not* use a hard sectored format. Its uses a 16 sector format which *does not* use the index hole, thus soft sectored. Software is able to find any given track/sector without the aid from the hardware. When using a communications program on the Kaypro (i.e. modem7 or mex) and Apple (i.e. ASCII Express "The Professional), avoid using the xmodem (Christensen) protocol if possible. Invoke the Apple's comm program to list the file and copy the data into the buffer of modem7 or mex. Protocol is possible, but the file has to be processed after the transfer. Apple's method of terminating a line in a text file is just a carriage return -- with no linefeed. So when you type the file out in CP/M, every line will be overwritten. Solve this by processing the file with FILTEX (a public domain program) or some other utility that inserts a LF after every orphan CR. Likewise, a CP/M text file transferred to an Apple will contain that *normal* LF and appear double-spaced when listed. > Is it economical to get my potential typist a CP/M card for her Apple? > Are they still made? Where and by whom? Costs? Two popular CP/M cards are available for the Apple: the "Softcard" by Microsoft and the "Appli-Card" by PCPI. They sell for about $275.00. Each card comes with a utility disk that includes a program to convert DOS files to CP/M.
barry@ames.UUCP (Kenn Barry) (04/09/85)
> In truth, the apple is 'softer' sectoring than anybody else - it > doesn't look at the sector hole(s) *AT ALL*. Therefore one can use > in the apple either soft or hard sectored disks providing that you > format them first. It is this 'softer' sectoring that makes the > apple weird - all other normal machine do look at the index hole - > a hard sectored disk drives them wild. We got in a shipment of hard-sectored disks for our Apples by mistake. I attempted to use them, as I could also see no reason the Apple couldn't use hard-sectored disks (you are of course right about the Apple using soft sectoring). Well, the hard sectored disks formatted perfectly, and *seemed* to work at first, but quickly began to get habitual write errors. These were good, name-brand disks, by the way. I can't fault your logic - I still don't understand why the hard- sectored disks didn't work. But I thought I'd better warn those who want to try it to be cautious - don't be too quick to commit valuable files to these disks. - From the Crow's Nest - Kenn Barry NASA-Ames Research Center Moffett Field, CA ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- USENET: {ihnp4,vortex,dual,hao,menlo70,hplabs}!ames!barry