prindle@nadc.ARPA (09/03/86)
Reply to request from singpang%hlerul5.bitnet: 1. The only widely utilized mailing list for the C64/C128 is the USENET list called "net.micro.cbm". This list is *not* gatewayed into the Arpanet. I have no idea if there is a USENET/BITNET gateway that passes this list. You can *submit* postings to "net.micro.cbm" by sending mail to microcomputer.cbm@rutgers.arpa. However, you cannot receive the postings because of the lack of a bidirectional gateway. Therefore, if you do submit a posting that requires a reply, be sure to ask for a carbon-copy to be sent directly to your address. 2. There are many communications programs, including Kermit, for the C128 in C64 mode. There are a few (no Kermit) for the C128 in native mode. There are at least 3 (IMP, MEX, and Kermit) for the C128 in CP/M mode. In short, there is no shortage of comm. programs - it's just a matter of finding the one you want. All 3 CP/M programs are in the SIMTEL20 archives (I know, BITNET people can't get those yet, but in time.....). 3/4. C64 and C128 disks are virtually identical (there are two flavors, single sided and double sided, but with a 1571 drive, either machine can read or write either format). There are currently bugs in the drive ROM which make it semi-pointless to use double sided with C64 or C128 mode. CP/M disk formats are simply random accessed variants of the basic C128 double or single sided formats - the three possible MFM formats are documented in the (Commodore) C128 Programmer's Reference Manual, and with this knowledge, it is not tough reading or writing CP/M disk formats from non-CP/M modes (hint: use the U1 and U2 random access functions of the drive DOS). On the other hand, CP/M cannot log in a non-CP/M formatted diskette, so reading or writing such from CP/M might be a hassle, if it is possible at all. 5. With the right communication software, a modem works great with the C128 in any mode at 300 or 1200 baud. The 128 has no UART, so there is so-called "bit-banging" code in both the ROM Kernal and in the CP/M BIOS to support receiving and sending bits at the right rate via internal clock interrupts. At 1200 baud, this eats up plenty of CPU time, but for general comm. functions (terminal emulation, uploading, downloading, capture buffer), this is no problem as long as the remote system can handle an occasional XON/ XOFF flow control sequence. I say "with the right communication software" because there are bugs in the Kernel ROM, so you cannot use the RS-232 port code by the book. You have your choice of either a TTL/Commodore User Port compatible modem (from several manufacturers including Commodore), or an ordinary RS-232 modem. If you use an RS-232 modem, you need level converters between the user port and the modem - Commodore and others sell such converters, or you can make your own. I use an Andersen-Jacobson 1259 RS-232 modem with homebrew (transistor even!) inverters. I use IMP, MEX, and Kermit in CP/M mode, TERM.PLUS, Kermit, XMOBUF, and Punter programs in C64 mode. The only semi-useful program I've used in 128 mode is called MicroVT-128 and it has not matured into a stable product yet. 6. C128 CP/M 3.0 is a very faithful implementation of banked CP/M 3.0 with a 58K TPA. You should be using the 6DEC85 or 8DEC85 versions to get the full benefit of bug fixes, RS-232 port support, and RAM expansion support. The only reason *any* CP/M 3.0 program would not run on the 128 would be that is was not configurable for the terminal emulation used by the 128 BIOS, that is an ADM31 (almost). Many CP/M 2.2 programs will work without any problem at all; in this case, any incompatibility (in addition to terminal emulation) would be in the form of 2.2/3.0 differences; fortunately, these are minimal since 3.0 was designed to be largely compatible with 2.2, while adding new features. One example of incompatibility is that some 2.2 "unerase" programs are confused by the volume header and/or time stamps of 3.0 and thus will not work. But the vast majority of CP/M 2.2 products seem to work just fine (try before you buy!). The 1571 disk drive will sense (and cause the BIOS to adapt to) MFM diskettes formatted for the Osborn (SSDD), Kaypro II, Kaypro IV, Epson (something or other...), and IBM-PC CP/M-86, and possibly some others; consult the manual for details. Beware, the 128, even in CP/M mode, is not without it's faults. The Z-80 is only running at 2Mhz., so don't expect the performance of a 6Mhz. system. Screen updates are moderately slow (but not unusable - equivalent to somewhere around 300 characters/second). You should set the baud rate down to 110 whenever you are not using the RS-232 port to minimize interrupt processing overhead, and maximize *your* use of the CPU. Diskette reads (on a 1571 drive) are pleasingly fast (from MFM formatted diskettes), but writes are quite a bit slower (there is a utility available which almost doubles the write speed - much better). 40 column mode is almost useless (sideways scrolling) for CP/M, so you better use an RGB or monochrome 80 column monitor. And finally, ROM bugs in the 1571 drive make it nearly useless to try to use double sided formatted diskettes in the non-CP/M modes (this has been fixed by Commodore, but it is still not obvious how to get the new ROMS - new ROMS are being used in newly manufactured units, but it would be hard to say if a given drive on a dealer's shelf had the old or the new). Sincerely, Frank Prindle Prindle@NADC.arpa
Larry_Shilkoff.ElSegundo@xerox.ARPA (09/06/86)
Can somebody tell me all the CP/M formats (double sided as well as single sided) the Commodore 128 will read and convert to run. Larry
daveh@cbmvax.cbm.UUCP (Dave Haynie) (09/09/86)
> > Can somebody tell me all the CP/M formats (double sided as well as > single sided) the Commodore 128 will read and convert to run. > > Larry The C128 has built-in code to read and write Kaypro II, Kaypro IV, Osborne Double Density, and some kind of IBM format. The limit on this, however, is only the software. I believe there is at least one public domain program out there that will set the 1571 drive up for many different formats. The 1571 drive has a programmable MFM controller that can read most of the CP/M formats that have been used once it is properly set up. As for software compatibility, the C128 is most compatible with a Kaypro. This is basically screen driver compatibiliy, as I've found most CP/M stuff to be very transportable (Epson stuff is often an exception to this; they do quite a bit of machine specific things). The C128 screen driver is an ADM-31 (or ADM-3A) with a few extensions for color. Some Kaypro machines have a few non-compatible extensions to the ADM standard, though the latest versions of the C128 BIOS (December '85 or later) are a bit more Kaypro compatible than the early C128 BIOS was. -- /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ Dave Haynie {caip,ihnp4,allegra,seismo}!cbmvax!daveh "I gained nothing at all from Supreme Enlightenment, and for that very reason it is called Supreme Enlightenment." -Gotama Buddha These opinions are my own, though for a small fee they be yours too. \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/