afo@pucc-k (Laurie J. Sefton) (01/28/85)
Since we've started talking about which earth is going to bite
the biggie, and which isn't, I've gotten the feeling that Earth-2 is
the most favoured Earth of the people posting here. Actually, I
prefer Earth-2 to Earth-1 on just about anything. The characters
seem to have more depth, and just seem to be all-around more
interesting. At first (a looooong while back), I though this was
due to stories about Earth-2 and characters thereof were pretty
scarce, and the people doing the plotting and scripting were doing
it more as a labour of love than anything else (ever notice that
when a character gets popular, the glow goes away?). Now I find
that I still prefer the Earth-2 people to Earth-1. I would be
thrilled and delighted if they (DC) punted the entire Earth-1 group
(with a few exceptions), and went with the Earth-2 groups...
Anyone else feel the same way?
Laurie Sefton
{harpo,ihnp4,allegra,decvax}!pur-ee!pucc-h!afo
{decwrl}purdue!pucc-h!afo
Unfortunately, my magicks have very little use in an industrialised
society....
--
Laurie Sefton
{harpo,ihnp4,allegra,decvax}!pur-ee!pucc-h!afo
{decwrl}purdue!pucc-h!afo
Unfortunately, my magicks have very little use in an industrialised
society....ciaraldi@rochester.UUCP (Mike Ciaraldi) (01/30/85)
Actually, I always liked the Earth-1 heroes, for a number fo reasons. Of course, they were the ones I first started reading in the early Seventies, so the Earth-2ers were always judged in comparison to them. As far a Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman, the only difference between the two earths is the the 2ers are all married (except for Batman being dead, of course). Having the heroes relativley young means they can do more physically, i.e. be more agile, even though they have less experience. The two Flashes didn't differ much, but Earth-1's Flash has all those neat Rogues Gallery villains. I liek the Earth-1 Green Lantern because of the tie in to the whole GL Corps. This lets you have more epic SF-type stories in addition to the earth-bound ones. On the other hand, I have always had a soft spot in my heart for The Huntress, especially as drawn by Joe Staton. The idea of being a second-generation superperson is appealing, plus her characterization was usually good. Practically speaking, you have to admit the tremendous popularity of groups like the GL Corps and the Legion of Super-Heroes, which are tied into the Earth-1 universe pretty tightly. The other big group, the Teen Titans, could be cut free to float to whatever Earth everyone ends up on, but the GL Corps is tied to the Guardians (who could move, I suppose), and the LSH is tied in via Superboy. So, what do you think, he said..... Mike Ciaraldi ciaraldi@rochester seismo!rochester!ciaraldi
tim@cmu-cs-k.ARPA (Tim Maroney) (02/01/85)
> From ciaraldi@rochester.UUCP (Mike Ciaraldi) Wed Jan 30 13:11:37 1985 > > The two Flashes didn't differ much, but Earth-1's Flash has all those > neat Rogues Gallery villains. Actually, I wouldn't be at all surprised or saddened to see the whole Flash's Rogues Gallery go up in a poof of antimatter, particularly since old Barry is probably going to die. (I hope so! Talk about your ridiculous and unbelievable characters.) > I like the Earth-1 Green Lantern because of the tie in to the > whole GL Corps. This lets you have more epic SF-type > stories in addition to the earth-bound ones. But in practice there are very few interesting "SF-type" Green Lantern stories. The reason is that the Guardians are an inherently dumb, early-sizties sort of pseudo-science-fiction idea. You know, like the original LSH. The difference is that the LSH has grown and the Guardians have not. Again, there are indications of a demise of the Guardians, from issue #2. They were left comatose or dead by the negative Monitor, and his words were very final. The battery is still intact, so perhaps existing lanterns will still be able to recharge rings. Thus the rings would be more mystic relics of a dead culture than galactic cops' sidearms -- a nicer idea. > Practically speaking, you have to admit the tremendous popularity > of groups like the GL Corps and the Legion of Super-Heroes, which > are tied into the Earth-1 universe pretty tightly. > The other big group, the Teen Titans, could be cut free to > float to whatever Earth everyone ends up on, but the GL Corps > is tied to the Guardians (who could move, I suppose), > and the LSH is tied in via Superboy. The LSH is in a future time period. It is clear to me that the final world will have time periods intercut from various worlds. Thus the LSH being in Earth-1's future says nothing about the fate of twentieth-century Earth-1. > So, what do you think, he said..... Now you know... -=- Tim Maroney, Carnegie-Mellon University Computation Center ARPA: Tim.Maroney@CMU-CS-K uucp: seismo!cmu-cs-k!tim CompuServe: 74176,1360 audio: shout "Hey, Tim!" "Remember all ye that existence is pure joy; that all the sorrows are but as shadows; they pass & are done; but there is that which remains." Liber AL, II:9.
ciaraldi@rochester.UUCP (Mike Ciaraldi) (02/01/85)
**********Warning: Responses to Spoilers Ahead********** **********Beware beinfg doubly spoiled!****************** > But in practice there are very few interesting "SF-type" Green Lantern > stories. The reason is that the Guardians are an inherently dumb, > early-sizties sort of pseudo-science-fiction idea. You know, like the > original LSH. The difference is that the LSH has grown and the Guardians > have not. > Well, I can remember a lot of interesting stories from the first 50 issues or so, when GL went to planets where his ring could do weird things, and later ran into an increasing number of "alien" GL's (or is HE the alien?....). But, what can I say? The GL Corps is a sort of updated Lensmen, honest and incorruptible, possessed of tremendous power that requires tremendous courage to utilize correctly. > The LSH is in a future time period. It is clear to me that the final world > will have time periods intercut from various worlds. Thus the LSH being in > Earth-1's future says nothing about the fate of twentieth-century Earth-1. > If this happens, will it really be a simplification? Some examples: In the future of the LSH, the Tornado Twins are supposed to be descendants of Barry (Flash) Allen. It was bad enough that Iris died before having any children, but if Barry goes too that about wraps it up for the TT. No one will miss them, actually, but their friends might wonder where they came from. Or, they might just know that there was a discontinuity at a particuklar part in the past. In any event, there are going to be inconsistencies that cannot be explained unless people know that the Crisis occurred. More important Legion problems: Since Dawnstar is in the Crisis series, it takes place "after" she joined the Legion; what this means in a series that spans thousands of years is not clear. Anyway, it has been rumored that Superboy will "never have existed". So, what about the early Legion stories where he traveled forward in time to be with them? Presumably they will still have occurred, otherwise the Legion would not have developed the way it "presently" is. If the Cosmic Axis shifts in such a way that Superboy is gone, does Dawnstar return to her own time and tell her teammates, "don't expect him to show up any more"? Or does everyone forget he ever existed, and all the statues of him erected in the 30th century suddenly dissolve? And leave little puddles of time-mush, I suppose. Imagine sitting around the Legion lounge reminiscing, Remember when old What's-is-name saved us?" "Who?" Someday someone in the time of the Legion will start travelling back into time, and what will he find? Will he find that until 1985 there were multiple Earths, but only one after? Which will be less confusing? If there was the change, how would it be perceived by the average person? There are all sorts of semi-public documents that mention the parallel-Earth concept (including the famous newspaper headline in "Flash of Two Worlds", and the Congressional hearing records from "Earth Vs. the JSA"), so what happens to them? This is all a lot like what happened when Wonder Woman had her memory erased, and the whole world also forgot that she had ever lost her powers and revealed her secret identity in public. Also like Dr. Fate's spell that made people on Earth-2 forget that Batman had revealed his secret identity when he was killed. Basically, I am afraid that we will end up with a "simplified" DC Universe that is full of inconsistencies and contradictions. The closest parallels I can recall to this in the non-comics field would be Gordon R. Dickson's TIME STORM, Fred Hoyle's OCTOBER THE FIRSY IS TOO LATE, and Ursula K. LeGuin's THE LATHE OF HEAVEN. Alll show what happens when you let your future come unstuck from your past--namely everyone gets confused. So, I leave you with two questions: 1) How do you think this should be handled by the Powers That Be at DC? i.e. what should the average person think has happened to the world? 2) Who would you like to see changed, and why? I have some ideas for #2: If Barry Allen does indeed shuffle off this mortal coil, this might open the way for a new, younger successor to the title "Flash". I suppose the new one could be Black, or female (no wait, that's been done). How about if the Ellison-scripted Kid Flash series has Wally recover from the problem that makes his super-speed kill him, and take up the mantle as the new Flash? I find something appealing about a superhero who has really only one power, because it should make him think up new ways to capitalize on it. The Flash has consistently done this. I wouldn't want to see The Batman eliminated, but I noticed in the annual sales figures that he is down to about 80,000 copies a month, and shrinking. Canceling HIM would be a big step for sure. There are a lot of parallel worlds that cannot be integrated into a single dimension without destroying theirr premises. e.g. you can't get rid of the Gemworld, unless it becomes a separate planet in our universe. The Earth that has Skartaris (home of The Warlord) inside cannot be Earth-1 now, or else Superman would have run into that big hole in the center of the Earth before now. Moving it into the remaining dimension means no more "Superman boring through the Earth and out the other side" stories. And so on. This is getting awfully long (some would just say "awful"), so I will just close with a note of admiration for the Crisis staff, who at least had the guts to try and bring this off, even if they don't entirely succeed. Mike Ciaraldi ciaraldi@rochester seismo!rochester!ciaraldi
ted@usceast.UUCP (Ted Nolan) (02/07/85)
In article <20980088@cmu-cs-k.ARPA> tim@cmu-cs-k.ARPA (Tim Maroney) writes: > >But in practice there are very few interesting "SF-type" Green Lantern >stories. The reason is that the Guardians are an inherently dumb, >early-sizties sort of pseudo-science-fiction idea. You know, like the >original LSH. The difference is that the LSH has grown and the Guardians >have not. > >> So, what do you think, he said..... > >-=- >Tim Maroney, Carnegie-Mellon University Computation Center >ARPA: Tim.Maroney@CMU-CS-K uucp: seismo!cmu-cs-k!tim >CompuServe: 74176,1360 audio: shout "Hey, Tim!" > Actually, I don't think it's a dumb early-60's psf idea, it's more like a 1930's and 40's mainstream(*) sf idea. In fact, I have a specific one in mind. Yes, you guessed it, I think the Green Lantern idea was based on Doc Smith's Lensman series. Substitute lens for ring, Arisa (sp?) for Oa, and what do you have? Two groups of heroes cleaning up the galaxy for a distant planet of superbeings. I even noticed one of the GL corps named Arisa a few years back (I don't follow the title regularly). Did the inspiration for GL come from Smith? Anyone have any speculations? * - yes I know there is an unjust tendency to downplay Smith nowdays, but at the time he was definitely in the mainstream. Ted Nolan ..usceast!ted -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ted Nolan ...decvax!mcnc!ncsu!ncrcae!usceast!ted (UUCP) 6536 Brookside Circle ...akgua!usceast!ted Columbia, SC 29206 allegra!usceast!ted@seismo (ARPA, maybe) ("Deep space is my dwelling place, the stars my destination") -------------------------------------------------------------------------------