captain@spock.UUCP (John Griffin '87 cc) (05/01/85)
The X-men are in serious trouble.
I remember the "good old days" in which the X-men were new. I mean, not
only the comic (new version), but the ideas. Here was this group of,
essentially, kids, teamed up together to save the world, but never got
any credit. Before this, Captain America, Iron Man, and the Avengers were
big, and the (comic) world thought they were great. The only hero with
problems was Spider-Man, and that was his funding, and Jameson. But the X-men
were a new twist. The concept of "anti-mutant" sentiment was born. Not only
did the X-men have diverse personal problems, but everyone else hated them.
That was the formula which made the X-men great. And, at a time when
the X-men first popped up, the great/wise/powerful John Byrne took over.
Since Mr. Byrne has a penchant for radical moves in comics, the two
made a winning combo. But, alas, soon the anti-mutant sentiment became the
in-thing for plot complications in comics. The New Mutants were
created, perhaps as a spinoff from the X-men. The X-babies filled the
hole the original x-men had grown out of: young insecure people. Well, fine.
From then on, the X-men spent their time "growing up" (about from ish. 150.)
and the nm's spent their time acting self-conscious.
Someone in the comics department must have said "Gee, shouldn't the
civilians get a little mad when the X-men knock down the IBM building to kill
Galactus. Maybe someone should doubt Reed Richards when he assures his
neighbors that Doc Doom will not be leaving the Baxter Building during the
battle, so everyong can sleep tight. Maybe when Capt. America throws his
mighty shield all the characters should wonder whether or not he will defeat
the Red Skull, instead of just taking it for granted?"
So began the era of bystander awareness. This fit right in with the
"anti-mutant sentiment" growing in the nation. Currently, it's in vogue
to have people shouting at the hero because he smashed their car (although
he saved the world--"I don't get no respect")
But, back to my main point, the X-men began all this. Now, all the
characters have either resolved their personal problems or learned to
live with them (and therefore the problems are no longer important).
Occasionally, characters will shiver when remembering the time they...
and so on. The personal problems have become old hat, as it were. The X-men
are all tired plots. No longer can the writers rely on the plots
Cockrum and Byrne did. However, the writer tried to attempt to bring
some new life, through Rachel...but it's still the same. Every now and then
she has flash backs, and her own personal problems are not capable of later
development.
So this is my arguement. The X-plots need new life. What do you think?
I know how revered the X-men are in people's minds. But look at the plots
logically. The X-men still have great potential, but need revamping.
Comments?henry@utzoo.UUCP (Henry Spencer) (05/06/85)
Claremont probably does need someone who can tell him "that idea stinks"
and make it stick; I fear JRJr doesn't have the independent track record
to do this effectively. But you're doing Claremont an injustice when you
give Byrne and Cockrum all the credit for the earlier new-X-Men plotting;
that's not the way the credits read.
--
Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
{allegra,ihnp4,linus,decvax}!utzoo!henrydls@mtgzz.UUCP (d.l.skran) (05/06/85)
REFERENCES: <5498@utzoo.UUCP>, <84@cadtec.UUCP>, <239@spock.UUCP> Gee, I'm confused. I thought that Rogue was an original, innovative character handled in a logical fashion. I thought Magneto's transformation excellent. Illayana(sp) intriguing. Of course, not every issue is great. The S&S breakaway "it was all a dream" stuff was horrible. As for Mutant Hate, I think that the older writers used it as a backdrop. Chris takes it *seriously* and is carrying it to its logical conclusion. Should be interesting. Dale
moriarty@fluke.UUCP (The Napoleon of Crime) (05/07/85)
Good idea for a new discussion. First off, Claremont has been with the book
(NEW X-Men) since its inception (excepting the first issue scripted by Len
Wein), as opposed to Byrne, who became the artist after Cockrum dropped out.
And while the "old" X-Men (Stan or Roy writing, Various artists (Neal Adams
in particular) pencilling) fit the "young insecure people" description, but
Claremont's characters have always been adults, with the exception of Kitty
and the New Mutants (who seem to have been created to fill precisely the
nitch you describe).
But you have described my major complaint with this comic succinctly:
America is filled with absolute anti-mutant sentiment! Yes, I know,
Nimrod's landlord and such are good people, but they're shown to be a
minority, and a pretty silent one at that. Does Claremont this this country
all that similar to Nazi Germany? Where are OUR Earth-Marvel counterparts?
I'm not courageous by any means, but I'm sure I wouldn't put up with this.
Claremont needs something besides Orwellian overtones to bring this comic
back to the very top (though it is still pretty good, if uneven).
"LOOK at them! Helpless, tender creatures, relying on ME,
waiting for ME to make my move!"
"Move your ASS, Fat-head!"
"It is a MANDATE, and I am DUTY BOUND to OBEY!"
Moriarty, aka Jeff Meyer
John Fluke Mfg. Co., Inc.
UUCP:
{cornell,decvax,ihnp4,sdcsvax,tektronix,utcsrgv}!uw-beaver \
{allegra,gatech!sb1,hplabs!lbl-csam,decwrl!sun,ssc-vax} -- !fluke!moriarty
ARPA:
fluke!moriarty@uw-beaver.ARPAee171ael@sdcc3.UUCP (GEOFFREY KIM) (05/09/85)
> Good idea for a new discussion. First off, Claremont has been with the book > (NEW X-Men) since its inception (excepting the first issue scripted by Len > Wein), as opposed to Byrne, who became the artist after Cockrum dropped out. > And while the "old" X-Men (Stan or Roy writing, Various artists (Neal Adams > in particular) pencilling) fit the "young insecure people" description, but > Claremont's characters have always been adults, with the exception of Kitty > and the New Mutants (who seem to have been created to fill precisely the > nitch you describe). > > But you have described my major complaint with this comic succinctly: > America is filled with absolute anti-mutant sentiment! Yes, I know, > Nimrod's landlord and such are good people, but they're shown to be a > minority, and a pretty silent one at that. Does Claremont this this country > all that similar to Nazi Germany? Where are OUR Earth-Marvel counterparts? > I'm not courageous by any means, but I'm sure I wouldn't put up with this. > Claremont needs something besides Orwellian overtones to bring this comic > back to the very top (though it is still pretty good, if uneven). > > "LOOK at them! Helpless, tender creatures, relying on ME, > waiting for ME to make my move!" > "Move your ASS, Fat-head!" > "It is a MANDATE, and I am DUTY BOUND to OBEY!" > > Moriarty, aka Jeff Meyer > John Fluke Mfg. Co., Inc. > UUCP: > {cornell,decvax,ihnp4,sdcsvax,tektronix,utcsrgv}!uw-beaver \ > {allegra,gatech!sb1,hplabs!lbl-csam,decwrl!sun,ssc-vax} -- !fluke!moriarty > ARPA: > fluke!moriarty@uw-beaver.ARPA *** REPLACE THIS LINE WITH YOUR MESSAGE *** Aww come on Jeff. (and everyone else for that matter). Admit it. The Xmen suck head right now. Too much time IS wasted on character development and hardly any time on just a plain old good story. In fact, every issue after about 150 sucked. I won't give any reason because it is all too plain and evident. The comic is trying to live off of its early reputation. I don't know why Jeff Meyer and the Jerry B. give it C ratings (on the average). In my opinion it always deserves an F. The next time someone give an Xman comic anything above a D, I will have a flame reply waiting to point out all the crappy points that I can't mention now. Larry Kim Please don't flame me since you know the comic really sucks head.