moriarty@fluke.UUCP (Henry Vogel) (06/27/85)
I'm posting this for Henry Vogel, the writer and former publisher for SOUTHERN KNIGHTS, who has been following net.comics via Jerry and I for the last couple of weeks. And now, without any further delay, here's Henry: [What? No stupid signiture line?] ******************************************************************************* This is my first posting on the net so I'll be touching on a bunch of different things. First of all, the rumor mill has been churning with all sorts of speculation concerning X-Factor. I can safely tell you one of the rumors is now a fact. Jean Grey will return - NOT as Phoenix. This is straight from Marvel's publicity director Steve Saffel. Steve called my publisher - David Kraft. Kraft publishes Comics Interview (and the Southern Knights - am I allowed to plug my own book here?). Anyway, Marvel asked Kraft if he would do an issue on X-Factor to be released after all the exciting revelations have been revealed. Kraft - who wishes he could put X-Men on the cover of CI every issue since sales soar - allowed them to twist his arm and said he would. Saffel then filled him in of some of what will be happening and the Jean Grey tidbit was part of it. I'm going to be interviewing (I hope) Jackson (Butch) Guice - the penciller for X-Factor (and former Southern Knights artist - oops, there I go again) in the near future and will get the whole story which, of course, I'll have posted on the net for me (I have to go through Jerry Boyagian and/or Jeff Meyer since I don't have direct access to the comics.net). A quick note to Ellen Eades. I know several people who can draw comics but don't have their addresses, etc. with me. If you want to, you can write me at the following address and I'll send you what info I have. Henry Vogel P.O.Box 1603 Clemson, SC 29631 On to X-Men controveries! First of all, Ray Chen credited Clairmont and Byrne with "a courageous decision by allowing Jean Grey to kill herself" and then flames Jim Shitter (I like that nick name) for wanting to bring her back. I don't know whether Shitter is behind her return, but he was definately behind her death! Clairmont and Byrne were going to have her powers stripped away from her - leaving her as a normal human. However, Shitter stepped in and forbade it. His reasoning was Phoenix had murdered millions of beings and therefore must die. C&B were not pleased in the least - especially because the order didn't come down from on high until after the pages were pencilled and scripted! I hate to burst your bubble, Ray, but if you liked the death of Phoenix, you have only Shitter to thank! As several people have mentioned recently, the X-Men are definately not what they used to be. I suppose everyone has their opinions as to what has caused this - you'd be surprised how many people blame the fall on Byrne - and I'd like to give mine. I think Clairmont is burning out. He seems to desperately (in my opinion, one of the best extended comic book stories ever). The problem is he seems to have forgotten what made the team special. The X-Men no longer laugh or seem to get any enjoyment from life. Everything they do is cosmic in scope. Somehow, I don't think the present Clairmont could write many of the old stories. Do you remember the issue where Kitty told a fairy tale to Illiana (before Illiana went to Hell)? That was fun. It didn't involve saving the world. That kind of story, I'm afraid, is no more. Maybe he'll break out of it soon - I certainly hope so. I used to dread the idea of Clairmont leaving the book - now I think it may be the only way to save it... By the way, are the rest of you out there as tired of anti-mutant hatred as I am? Personally, if super- powered mutants existed, I think they would organize a congressional lobby, vote as a block, and suddenly begin to receive federal aid for development of their mutations. The Xavier School for Gifted Youngster (a name that should have been changed years ago) would apply for and receive massive federal grants. I doubt they would be treated as they are in the X-Men. (How can the populace of the nation hate/fear mutants and embrace Captain America as a hero at the same time?) Well, I've certainly rabled long enough. More next time! Henry Vogel
moriarty@fluke.UUCP (The Napoleon of Crime) (06/28/85)
In article <754@vax2.fluke.UUCP> moriarty@fluke.UUCP (Henry Vogel) writes: >As several people have mentioned recently, the X-Men are definately not what >they used to be. I suppose everyone has their opinions as to what has caused >this - you'd be surprised how many people blame the fall on Byrne - and I'd >like to give mine. I think Clairmont is burning out. He seems to desperately >(in my opinion, one of the best extended comic book stories ever). The problem >is he seems to have forgotten what made the team special. The X-Men no longer >laugh or seem to get any enjoyment from life. Everything they do is cosmic >in scope. Somehow, I don't think the present Clairmont could write many of the >old stories. Do you remember the issue where Kitty told a fairy tale to Illiana >(before Illiana went to Hell)? That was fun. It didn't involve saving the world. >That kind of story, I'm afraid, is no more. Maybe he'll break out of it soon - >I certainly hope so. I couldn't agree with this more -- the "'tweener" issues (i.e. Jerry's term -- in-between issues where not much happens in the way of battles or major plot developments; the characters get a chance to catch their breath) are usually my favorite, but they are few and far between. I would like to take it a step further: in the wonderful old (old? I was 18 when those issues came out!) Claremont/Byrne issues came out, the thing you enjoyed about the X-Men most was the family atmosphere of the characters. They had all been loners, many ostracized from the rest of society, but they become friends and, in a sense, family to one another -- and it was nicely done, in a manner that seemed realistic. The current batch of X-Men/New Mutants/X-Factor seem to be a bunch of talented individuals meeting at a cocktail party or a health spa. Each of them has their own crisises, on their own, and they keep it to themselves. The Kitty/Colossus story in the last issue really drove me up the wall -- I do not expect a kind person to do what Kitty did to Peter, and it bothers me a lot. I know she's not the sweet young thing of 50 issues ago, but having her come on like Joan Collins doesn't make my day, either. >... By the way, are the rest of >you out there as tired of anti-mutant hatred as I am? Pet Peeve! Pet Peeve! I mean, what happened to all the reasonable people on Earth-Marvel? (Answer: Jim Shooter had them shipped out two years ago). What about my counterpart? Is HE sitting on his ass, letting this go by? No way, man. The battle for mutant rights would be kindled in net.flame... >(How can the >populace of the nation hate/fear mutants and embrace Captain America as a >hero at the same time?) Well, that I can understand. Many people would like to think of themselves as represented by Captain America, who is a legend (I mean, to your Grandfather, father and to you). Man has been promoted in history books and news stories up one side and down another. Mutants are mysterious, powerful, often ugly or strange-looking, and most importantly, they all act like individuals, each with his own good and evil qualities. Americans like a nice simple symbol-like persona as a rule (look at our President :-)); having to move a group of people out of a stereotype and onto a one-by-one evaluation takes too much effort for many. "You're all MISTAKEN! I got 65 girlfriends -- and a LIFETIME MEMBERSHIP in the NATIONAL RIFLE ASSOCIATION!" Moriarty, aka Jeff Meyer John Fluke Mfg. Co., Inc. UUCP: {cornell,decvax,ihnp4,sdcsvax,tektronix,utcsri}!uw-beaver \ {allegra,gatech!sb1,hplabs!lbl-csam,decwrl!sun,ssc-vax} -- !fluke!moriarty ARPA: fluke!moriarty@uw-beaver.ARPA
GMS@psuvm.BITNET (07/04/85)
I just had to put my 2 cents into this discussion to represent an opposing
viewpoint. Maybe I relate to comics differently than John or Henry (I've
been reading them since I was 5 -- and I'm 31 now). I have followed X-MEN
since issue #1, which I bought at a grocery store in Pittsburgh
for 12 cents! However these comments refer to all comics in general.
I look to comics as a visually-accented form of science fiction. For that
reason I much prefer the serious issues that stick to a constant storyline
rather than the 'tweeners' that deal with problems such as the heartbreak of
a teenage girl (who has the power to destroy or save the world) getting hung
up on her acne at a Prince concert!
This isn't to say that I would want comics to be entirely devoid of humor. But
there are ways to make the humor realistrc as well. (Some of Peter Parker's
remarks when he is fighting an impossibly strong foe -- if seen as a case of
defensive battle-weary syndrome -- fit the bill of what I like.) Since the
early X-Men were a family of sorts they could engage in a mixture of humorous
and serious conversation.
I particularly liked series such as "The Phoenix Saga" and "The Brood" in
X-MEN, and the "Return of Trigon" saga in TT. I realize that sometimes the
seriousness gets to be too much also, so I would emphasize the idea of not
getting to be TOO ridiculous. (Gee, in a comic book format I'm not too sure
that makes sense - but there it is!)
I absolutely HATE the 'joke in a book' issues such as the X-MEN annual where
fight the Impossible man, or the one where Kitty tells Ilyanna a bedtime story.
To me they are a bad waste of good mo9ney that I could've spent on something
else. When I want humor I'll either read a good William Tenn story or check
out the local comedy club -- and I do both regularly.
The point is that I think it is one-sided to claim that the downfall of the
X-MEN in particular (and others is general) is do to the lack of lightness
on the parts of the writers/producers. I wish they would eliminate the
'every issue is entirely different' trend and go for more continuity, with
a number of smaller storylines (which in themselves do not have to be too
serious), woven into one or two major (and longer) storylines.
The best comic I have found that managed to mix the ludicrous and serious
and MAKE IT WORK was 'Destroyer Duck'. I*n this case it worked because it
contained some very unique concepts (the self-regenerating lifeform and human
phermone accentuation). I loved the story behind the X-MEN/Teen-Titans book.
The art can then add-to or detract-from the effect of the story. One of the
best combos of art/story I've seen yet is the recent SHATTER #1. (I know
a lot of those in netland panned it but it was certainly new and different!)
At any rate, any who would like to debate me or enlighten me as to why I'm
wrong are welcome to send me mail at the address below:
Gerry Santoro
Penn State University
. . . !psuvax1!santoro (uucp)
. . . !psuvax1!psuvm.bitnet!gms (uucp --> bitnet -preferred path-)
. . . santoro @ penn-state (csnet)
"Hi, my names Logan too! Maybe we're related?"