tim@k.cs.cmu.edu.ARPA (Tim Maroney) (10/08/85)
Look, it was obvious from the start that this whole sequence was going to be cretinous. The premise makes that obvious. So why do you people, who I assume are somewhat above average in intelligence, buy it? I'm serious! What factors cause someone to buy a comic book that they realize from the start is going to be awful? Don't you realize that if you continue to suffer these Pavlovian reactions to comic books, they will continue to be rotten? If you are guaranteed to buy something that has Jean Grey on the cover, then why should they bother putting a good story? If the floor beneath you becomes covered with drool when you hear the name Byrne, then why shouldn't he become somewhat less careful in his artwork (as we've all seen)? The major obstacle to real improvement in comics is the buying habits of the fans. Unless you people start to =PUT= =QUALITY= =FIRST= in your purchases, then Marvel is surely not going to put quality first in their releases. -=- Tim Maroney, CMU Center for Art and Technology ARPA: Tim.Maroney@CMU-CS-K uucp: seismo!cmu-cs-k!tim CompuServe: 74176,1360 audio: shout "Hey, Tim!"
boyajian@akov68.DEC (JERRY BOYAJIAN) (10/09/85)
> From: pedsgd!bobh (Bob Halloran) > Problems w/ FF 286: she should have been able to find Scott within > about 15 seconds of coming conscious. Why didn't she? Why should she have been able to find Scott immediately? Her telepathic powers as Marvel Girl weren't anywhere near Prof. X's. I think she had to concentrate for a bit to "find" someone's mind. Secondly, she was quite disoriented, not to mention occupied fighting the "X-Sentinels". > And since > when have things like Sue Richards' force fields been able to block > ESPer energies? Are we going to have this exposure to the bio- > whatever stunt or augment her ESPer talents; make up your minds, > folks! Agreed, this was confusing. Were her powers "sluggish" because of the time spent in the cocoon, or were they augmented by the bio-whosis ray? > Minor continuity point; since Rachel has impressed herself > alongside Jean in the Shi'ar crystal, complete with image, why > didn't Jean pick up on it? Or was THAT the 'other one' that > sent her into the faint? If Rachel's impression happened AFTER > these events, why didn't she realize her mother was alive? Oh, I'm pretty sure that the "other one" was Rachel. I suspect that this FF issue takes place a little while after X-MEN #201, since I'm willing to bet that the number Reed was calling at the end was X-Factor's (ie. Scott's) number. As for recognizing Rachel's essence, maybe she realized that there was someone else in the crystal, but not realizing just who it is. > Upcoming problems: all her old teammates are going to have some > problems; they were fighting no-holds-barred up there on the > Moon for HER LIFE, and now they find out it was all a sham? > I would think there's going to be some VERY hard feelings on > the part of all concerned. So who are they going to blame? It's no one's fault (except Jim Shooter's). Why should they hold anything against Jean? > Where does she go? She really hasn't got a place in the current > X-Men team; as Marvel Girl, I'm afraid her powers are far eclipsed > by her 'daughter', Rachel. Jean will be the fifth member of X-Factor, of course. > Come to think of it, how's Rachel going > to deal with THIS twist of the timeline? How's Jean going > to handle motherhood? This is a good point, and one that I'm sure all concerned are considering. Rachel is going to have kittens when she finds out Jean is still alive, and thus, that her future could well be *the* future. Part of what sanity she's been able to maintain is based on the fact that her future was only one *possible* future. What jean will think of Rachel is anyone's guess. Maybe Rachel will keep it a secret from her as well as from Scott. Sure, Jean might well read Rachel's mind, but I think Rachel is powerful enough a telepath to block Jean's probes. > Then there's Scott. I hope that the floating rumors in the > fan press are false (that Scott will leave Maddy for his > 'first love' then be rejected by Jean for abandoning wife > and, now, child). Well, Scott will eventually have to get together with Jean to create Rachel, right? As far as Maddy's concerned, look up the Cyclops entry in the revised edition of the OFFICIAL HANDBOOK (#3) --- his marital status is given as "Married, now separated." (It's amazing what things one can pick up looking in the oddest places.) > This particular knife-through-the-heart > sounds like Dark Claremont at his worst. Scott says he's > reconciled himself to Jean's death. He seems to have found > happiness with Maddy; DON'T let Jean's return screw things up. A-hah! *THIS* is just what Claremont was afraid of, and why he's pissed off at the whole deal!!! People are going to think all this is his doing. CLAREMONT HAS GOT NO SAY IN THE MATTER!!!!!! Scott, Jean, and the rest of the original X-Men are out of Claremont's hands. They are now in the paws of Bob Layton (writer/inker), Jackson Guice (pencil- ler), and Jim Shooter (editor). What happens to them there is not his fault. I'm sure that Shooter directed him to create familial problems for Scott and Maddy to add fuel to the situation, but that's where Claremont's responsibility ends. It's Dark Shooter's fault. It's all Dark Shooter's fault... > I could see Jean becoming the new mother-figure to the > X-Men and New Mutants, given Ororo's movement away from > that role. As a powerful telepath/kinetic, she could > (if she can reconcile her feelings on the matter) aid > Magnus in leadership of the teams, having been a part > of them before. Not to be. As I said, she's to be a part of X-Factor. This is fact, not rumor. I have seen cover reproductions for the first couple of X-FACTOR issues, and Jean is on them. --- jayembee (Jerry Boyajian, DEC, Acton-Nagog, MA) UUCP: {decvax|ihnp4|allegra|ucbvax|...}!decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-akov68!boyajian ARPA: boyajian%akov68.DEC@DECWRL.ARPA
tallman@dspo.UUCP (10/16/85)
>> I would think there's going to be some VERY hard feelings on >> the part of all concerned. > >So who are they going to blame? It's no one's fault (except Jim Shooter's). >Why should they hold anything against Jean? They will blame The Phoenix, not Jean. It usurped her life, love, and friends, and left her buried underwater without telling anyone where she was. Scott especially will be disgusted. >> Come to think of it, how's Rachel going >> to deal with THIS twist of the timeline? How's Jean going >> to handle motherhood? Rachel is the daughter of the Phoenix copy of Jean. What will she do when she finds out her mother was a space monster? C. David Tallman - dspo!tallman@LANL.GOV or ihnp4!lanl!dspo!tallman Los Alamos National Laboratory - E-10/Data Systems Los Alamos, New Mexico - (505) 667-8495 -- C. David Tallman - dspo!tallman@LANL.GOV or ihnp4!lanl!dspo!tallman Los Alamos National Laboratory - E-10/Data Systems Los Alamos, New Mexico - (505) 667-8495
allen@bunker.UUCP (C. Allen Grabert) (10/16/85)
> Personally I think Shooter's got a lot to answer for. Like countless > editorial decisions, Secret Bores, Secret Bores II (talk about trying > to soak the public for every cent he can get), and now this. I just > think it's a pretty sad thing that one person can screw up so many > good comics. > > Ray Chen > gitpyr!chen > I've wondered for awhile (maybe only half in jest) if Shooter's work at Marvel is really a plot by DC to win readers!! He becomes editor-in-chief, screws up their continuity, and readers switch to DC in disgust!! -- Back on the freeway, which is already in progress, Allen Grabert (...ittatc!bunker!allen)
henry@utzoo.UUCP (Henry Spencer) (10/18/85)
> Rachel is the daughter of the Phoenix copy of Jean. What will she do when > she finds out her mother was a space monster? Ah, but was she? That wasn't this universe, remember. We all know how Claremont feels about Shooter's latest atrocity; what's the betting that things were a Little Bit Different in Rachel's home universe? -- Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology {allegra,ihnp4,linus,decvax}!utzoo!henry
henry@utzoo.UUCP (Henry Spencer) (10/18/85)
Actually, you can push this further: how do we KNOW that the Jean Grey
who got fished out of the water by the Avengers is the REAL Jean Grey,
and that the one who died in X-Men #137 was the phony?
If you really want wheels within wheels, consider the still-unresolved
question of Madeleine Pryor's relation to Jean/Phoenix...
--
Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
{allegra,ihnp4,linus,decvax}!utzoo!henry