tjarks@ihlts.UUCP (Tim Tjarks) (11/06/85)
I read the first issue of X-Factor yesterday, and I did not enjoy it. Put aside for a moment the issue of whether or not Jean Grey should have been resurrected, for there are far worse things to be found in this comic. What I really find distasteful about X-Factor is the premise for bringing the group together. They band together once again to rescue young mutants from persecution at the hands of the mutant-haters, that's all very well and good. But to do this, they work under the guise of a "mutant control" agency. The scheme basically works like this, and use an analogy just so it become clear to everyone just how ridiculous the concept is: Suppose there is a small group of civil rights workers in the Deep South in the 60's. Some members of this group are white or blacks that can pass for white. These members go on television with ads saying, "Have you got problems with uppity coloreds in you neighborhood? Call this number and we'll come take care of them for you." When this group gets a call, they come take the "uppity colored" to a place of safety and soak the caller for a large fee for "disposing" of the problem. Then they are very pleased with themselves for rescuing another persecuted black, and taking the bigots for large sums of money. OK, now substitute "mutie" for "colored" and "normal human" for "white" in the above paragraph and you have X-Factor. Does anyone believe that this kind of action really improves the conditions for mutant-kind in general? Of course not. The X-Factor commercials would just encourage increased mutant hatred. The art and dialogue in X-Factor are below the standard of most of today's comics (unless you consider Secret Wars I the standard, in which case X-Factor is right on par). Also, none of these characters are the least bit likeable any more. Scott is a jerk for leaving Maddy, Jean and Warren dreamed up the scheme above, Hank has reverted to his personality from X-Men #1, and you hardly even notice Bobby is there. And then when they are in costume they don't want people to know they are associated with X-Factor. Which of course explains why they have huge X's across the costumes. There is nothing to recommend about X-Factor. If I ever do any regular reviews like Jerry and Jeff do, I now have my example of a Z rating. Tim Tjarks, ihnp4!ihlts!tjarks
laurie@isieng.UUCP (Laurie Sefton) (11/09/85)
The X-Factor stuff is *dreadful*! I cannot believe that they have managed
to revert characterizations to early Kirby--the Beast hasn't spoken like
that for years now. I thought he had gotten his act together in between
his mini-series (tales to astonish?), and his appearance in the Avengers
a while back (a long while back).
And why is Scott portrayed as such a flaming Bozo? Are we back to the days
of ("oh, I love Jean so much, but I don't know how to tell her")
{thoughts inside of ()} garbage. Scott has been portrayed as indecisive
before, but not *this* bad!! And he *knows* he is being cruel to Maddy-
he may have been a wimp before, but cruelty was not one of his traits
And what are they going to do with all these mutants, once they have them?
Are they going to send them to Warren Worthington's Arizona Ranch for
Wayward Mutants?
And you know, sooner or later, the current X-Men are going to get wind of
this, and we're going to have the *lovely* crossover. In fact, I wouldn't
doubt seeing them crossing over into every front-line book that Marvel
has in the next year (sort of a permanent Secret Bores).
I'm disgusted...
Laurie Sefton
{Integrated Solutions probably has no policy on either comic books or
mutants}soren@reed.UUCP (Soren Petersen) (11/10/85)
In article <172@isieng.UUCP> laurie@isieng.UUCP (Laurie Sefton) writes: > > >The X-Factor stuff is *dreadful*! I cannot believe that they have managed >to revert characterizations to early Kirby--the Beast hasn't spoken like >that for years now. I thought he had gotten his act together in between >his mini-series (tales to astonish?), and his appearance in the Avengers >a while back (a long while back). > >And why is Scott portrayed as such a flaming Bozo? Are we back to the days >of ("oh, I love Jean so much, but I don't know how to tell her") >{thoughts inside of ()} garbage. Scott has been portrayed as indecisive >before, but not *this* bad!! And he *knows* he is being cruel to Maddy- >he may have been a wimp before, but cruelty was not one of his traits Wait a minute. How would *you* react if the one person you truly loved but thought dead came back to life. Yes Scott is no doubt aware he is being cruel, but he is under one hell of a lot of stress. I don't approve of a lot of the stuff that is going on in X-Factor, but the portrayal of Scott's indecision seems quite well handled to me. And while we are on the subject, I am getting sick of all this dumping on X-Factor. I agree that it is stunningly mediocre at best, but that still makes it better than at least half of the Marvel line--as good as Defenders was, and much better than current Avengers. However, that is not the point. Were X-Factor #1 the greatest comic in history, the net reaction would be just as negative. Nobody wastes time putting down, for instance, The Thing, although it is much worse than X-Factor--it isn't worth the effort, and neither is X-Factor. >I'm disgusted... So am I. Have a nice day Soren Petersen
moriarty@fluke.UUCP (The Napoleon of Crime) (11/11/85)
In article <2127@reed.UUCP> soren@reed.UUCP (Soren Petersen) writes: >And while we are on the subject, I am getting sick of all this dumping >on X-Factor. I agree that it is stunningly mediocre at best, but that >still makes it better than at least half of the Marvel line--as good as >Defenders was, and much better than current Avengers. However, that is >not the point. Were X-Factor #1 the greatest comic in history, the >net reaction would be just as negative. Nobody wastes time putting down, >for instance, The Thing, although it is much worse than X-Factor--it >isn't worth the effort, and neither is X-Factor. I doubt that the reaction to X-Factor #1 would be unceasingly negative if it was a great comic. I haven't read it yet, but I suspect the reason for the large number of reviews are 1) it's a first issue, and one of the main uses of these reviews is so we can let each other know what comics we think are good buys (even I, with a budget far too devoted to comics, could not come close to buying all the titles out there -- nor would I want to (eck! G.I. Joe!)). Lots of publicity usually follows a first issue. The reason you don't see a lot of people dumping on The Thing is that when it first started turning bad, a lot of us said "Hey! It's rotting! Drop it like a radioactive spud!" 2) It contains the X-Men, some of the most popular characters in comics today, which brings in a lot of opinions. As to their mainly negative nature, well.... I suspect it may be because it's bad! I'll have to read the first issue to find out, though (I haven't heard from Jerry on the quality, yet, but I seem to remember Laurie Sefton saying it stunk, and I find that our opinions on comics usually run parallel). Not everyone has a MLLL, Soren... "Monks in their cowls shall be forced into marriage and their lamentation will be heard on the mountain-peaks." The Prophecies of Merlin, Geoffrey of Monmouth Moriarty, aka Jeff Meyer ARPA: fluke!moriarty@uw-beaver.ARPA UUCP: {uw-beaver, sun, allegra, sb6, lbl-csam}!fluke!moriarty <*> DISCLAIMER: Do what you want with me, but leave my employers alone! <*>
laurie@isieng.UUCP (Laurie Sefton) (11/12/85)
In article <2127@reed.UUCP> soren@reed.UUCP (Soren Petersen) writes: >Wait a minute. How would *you* react if the one person you truly loved >but thought dead came back to life. Yes Scott is no doubt aware he is >being cruel, but he is under one hell of a lot of stress. > >I don't approve of a lot of the stuff that is going on in X-Factor, but >the portrayal of Scott's indecision seems quite well handled to me. Really? I certainly don't think so. It looks like another throwback to the "Oh, I love Jean, but I just can't tell her so" of the mid-60's. And being cruel to both your former lover and your wife isn't being a bozo? He has shown *a lot* more maturity in the past, and this seems to wash it all away. Besides, his *friends* don't seem to be offering much advice *or* consolation. Maybe if they just ignore it, it will go away? > >And while we are on the subject, I am getting sick of all this dumping >on X-Factor. I agree that it is stunningly mediocre at best, but that >still makes it better than at least half of the Marvel line--as good as >Defenders was, and much better than current Avengers. However, that is >not the point. Were X-Factor #1 the greatest comic in history, the >net reaction would be just as negative. Nobody wastes time putting down, >for instance, The Thing, although it is much worse than X-Factor--it >isn't worth the effort, and neither is X-Factor. > How would you feel if they took "Gone with the Wind", and did a sequel which was a mediocre product? How about a nice little mediocre re-hash of "War and Peace"? I get the distinct feeling that *this* is how our reading audience feels about what has been done to X-Factor. And if Byrne messes up Superman next summer, we'll probably complain about *that* too. If it drops down to the level of say, Flash 320-345, will we say "Oh, well, it's mediocre, so we'll accept it." NOT LIKELY Besides, who out there reads The Thing? Is anyone pointing a gun to our heads and saying "accept mediocre {or worse!} comic books, that's all that we think you want and deserve". Not the last time I checked, anyway. I know I have dropped quite a few books in the last two years because they dropped to below my standards (and before you go on a "she only reads eclectic independent stuff" flame, read my reviews--you'll see I read a pretty wide variety of stuff). > Have a nice day > Soren Petersen I will now..... Laurie Sefton {I'll bet that Integrated Solutions doesn't read The Thing, either--and that they have no opinions on it}
soren@reed.UUCP (Soren Petersen) (11/13/85)
In article <174@isieng.UUCP> laurie@isieng.UUCP (Laurie Sefton) writes: >In article <2127@reed.UUCP> soren@reed.UUCP (Soren Petersen) writes: >>Wait a minute. How would *you* react if the one person you truly loved >>but thought dead came back to life. Yes Scott is no doubt aware he is >>being cruel, but he is under one hell of a lot of stress. >> >>I don't approve of a lot of the stuff that is going on in X-Factor, but >>the portrayal of Scott's indecision seems quite well handled to me. > >Really? I certainly don't think so. It looks like another throwback to >the "Oh, I love Jean, but I just can't tell her so" of the mid-60's. And >being cruel to both your former lover and your wife isn't being a bozo? >He has shown *a lot* more maturity in the past, and this seems to wash it >all away. Besides, his *friends* don't seem to be offering much advice >*or* consolation. Maybe if they just ignore it, it will go away? On this we will simply have to agree to differ. I would like to say that dialogue is not the same thing as characterization (witness Claremont who has great characters and horrible dialogue), and that nobody ever claimed that Scott had completely gotten over losing Jean--he did marry a dead ringer for her, after all. His entire--rather fragile--world collapsed when he found out that she was alive, I think he can be excused a fair amount of indecision before he rebuilds. He has one hell of a choice to make, I think he can be allowed a little time to make it. Scott is a victim of events, not of character. >Besides, who out there reads The Thing? Is anyone pointing a gun to our >heads and saying "accept mediocre {or worse!} comic books, that's all >that we think you want and deserve". Not the last time I checked, anyway. I am not saying that anyone has to accept mediocre comic books. What I am saying is that the best way to handle it is to ignore it. I am obviously It seems to me that a depressingly large amount of the X-Factor postings only confirm to me Shooter's opinion of the maturity of the Marvel readership. I am not in favor of X-Factor, or even mediocre comics in general. What I am in favor of is a dignified silence in the face of them. There is lots of really great stuff out there we can talk about, some of it is even edited by Shooter (Daredevil, or a lot of the Epic line, for example), why are we wasting so much time and energy on the net bitching about X-Factor, and Shooter about which we all agree (yes, me too) when we could be talking about things we actually enjoy, and on which we have something interesting to say. >> Have a nice day >> Soren Petersen > >I will now..... > Have another nice day Soren Petersen
henry@utzoo.UUCP (Henry Spencer) (11/14/85)
> ...The X-Factor commercials would just encourage increased mutant hatred. Worse than that, consider X-Factor's actions. New, dangerous mutant appears. The authorities are chasing him. Suddenly a bunch of recognizable mutants show up, chase the authorities off (violently: destruction of property, injury, and possible deaths involved), and disappear with the newly-appeared mutant. In other words, mutants taking care of their own kind, never mind what it costs to ordinary humans. This could hardly be better calculated to make normal humans see mutants as united against them. Also, offhand I can't remember a time when even the X-Men -- who have a reputation as sort of a mixed blessing -- have ever made quite such an open frontal attack on the legitimate authorities. There have been a number of occasions when the X-Men have come into conflict with the cops through doing their own thing in suspicious circumstances, but this seems a new level of escalation. X-Factor, in their costumed identities, are already just as much outlaws as the X-Men are, if not more so. > And then when they are in costume they don't want people to know they > are associated with X-Factor. Which of course explains why they have > huge X's across the costumes. And surely it won't take long for anybody with brains to put two and two together and correlate X-Factor involvement with the new costumed group. Furthermore, note well that Warren's identity as the Angel is *PUBLICLY* *KNOWN*! Any competent police/FBI man investigating the affair would be knocking on X-Factor's door with warrants -- both search warrants and arrest warrants -- within hours. -- Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology {allegra,ihnp4,linus,decvax}!utzoo!henry
tim@k.cs.cmu.edu (Tim Maroney) (11/19/85)
The reactions to X-Factor were interesting. My feelings were quite
positive; I bought it in a sort of semi-ashamed way, expecting to take it
home and hate it, but willing to give it a shot because Layton's been so
good in the past (especially, of course, the Hercules mini-serieseseseses).
Lo and behold, it was actually a lot of fun! The characters were the same
old X-Men I knew and loved from Stan Lee and Roy Thomas, but filtered
through the more mature stylistic perspectives of modern comics. I'd call
this easily better than the original series for that reason (and
=especially= better than Thomas....) The premise was kinky and enjoyable,
though I think "Let's screw over the mutant-haters while pretending to help
them" will probably start wearing thin pretty soon. The emotional scenes
between Scott, Madelyn, and Jean were handled well, with a frankness and
straightforwardness totally absent in Claremont's dripping, heavy handed
sentimentality. I'm actually looking forward to the next issue, which I
wouldn't have believed a week before the first came out.
Did other people expect some WONDERFUL NEW COMIC that would REDEEM THE
FIELD, or what? If so, I can understand your disappointment, but coming at
it not expecting much certainly made it seem pretty good!
-=-
Tim Maroney, CMU Center for Art and Technology
Tim.Maroney@k.cs.cmu.edu uucp: {seismo,decwrl,etc.}!k.cs.cmu.edu!tim
CompuServe: 74176,1360 I am my own hunchbacked assistant.