datanguay@watdaisy.UUCP (David Tanguay) (11/30/85)
> > I'm not sure myself that MM deserves it's own class due to realism; is it > more realistic than other SH stories? Or is it due to Moore's skill as a > writer? Can a super-hero comics EVER be done with much realism? -- they are > inherintly unrealistic (unless there's guys running around in their > underwear somewhere). Are there other SH comics/characters which deserve a > class III setting (the aforementioned Graphic Novel "God Loves, Man Kills" > comes to mind). > > What do you think? > Moriarty, aka Jeff Meyer I just finished #3. This is, by far, the best super-hero comic I've read. I am not convinced, however, that it has done anything "new". The problem with all the other SH comics is, as Moriarty suggests, is realism. I don't think scientific realism can ever be attained, but Miracleman (with #3) seems to have kept it to a minimum. It always irks me to see Kitty Pryde walk out of the danger room, with its computer controlled simulations, and into her room to do her assignment on what looks like an IBM PC or Apple II: such a disparity in technology is hard to swallow (better example: how can they consider the shuttle to be high tech when the government is constantly spewing out Sentinels?). More important is the human realism. Moran, when he finds out he is Miracleman, does rush out and try to save the world, nor does he break down emotionally thinking he's some kind of monster. Instead, he tries to find out exactly what he is. He is presented as a real, consistent person, unlike any other SH. All other SHs are weirdos at best, and usually end up behaving inconsistently to cover up some scripting flaw (Cyclops and X-Factor jumps to mind (Jean too) - if its capable of generating an argument about consistency like that on the net, something must be wrong). The same realism extends to the other characters. The only real weirdo (Big Ben) is recognised as being a head-case. Note that the arch-villain (Kid-Miracleman) was existing peacefully in the world even while he was taking control. I don't think Miracleman deserves to be called class III (I'm not sure that such a class can exist for SH comics). There is nothing novel about Miracleman: Moore is simply doing what everybody else claims to be doing. This is just a class II SH comic done right. I think we should also remember that Moore has an advantage over the other SH comics: there is only one comic in this universe and Moore has no idiot editor over him trying to impose impossible continuity leaps on him. Also, it may be too early in the storyline for realism flaws to be exposed. I have enough confidence in Moore's ability to doubt that such flaws will appear. Would you look at all those words? I didn't know I could write that much about *anything* (just look at my poor thesis!). David Tanguay @ University of Waterloo, Ontario
datanguay@watdaisy.UUCP (David Tanguay) (11/30/85)
ooops! Second line of third paragraph says "does rush out" and should say "does not rush out". David Tanguay
cc-30@ucbcory.BERKELEY.EDU (Sean "Yoda" Rouse) (12/04/85)
This is in reply to an article asking for opinions on Miracleman.
I apologize in advance if what I ramble about isn't what was asked for.
Alan Moore said it best, at the beginning of his San Diego Comicon seminar,
"Despite all appearances, this is not the Second Coming. I am not the answer
to comic books today."
Undisputably, Moore's writing is top-quality, which makes it unusual.
He brings a sense of depth to his plotting and characterization that is seldom
found in comics. I hesitate to call it "realism", because if you judge Project
Zarathustra in terms of reality, well...it doesn't quite make it. (I'd
watch out for Watchmen, though. There, Moore will be treating superheroes as
they'd affect the world, e.g. The US gets the first superhero, so the USSR
keels under diplomatically in certain instances because of the superior
military force this superhero represents.)
Admittedly, Moore's characterizations of people is much closer to realism
than, say, Claremont's writing. (I loved that bit about the difference between
the love Miracleman/Marvelman has and the love that Moran has for Liz.) He
also uses more up-to-date, immediate, hardhitting imagery and symbolism. His
writing is so goddam complex, you can spend days just revelling in the richness
of it. (e.g. V for Vendetta: the bit about Beethoven's Fifth, and the first
paragraph in the Swamp Thing werewolf story).
But it's not a comic book revolution.
It's just good writing. It's superhero comics done right.
I think the main problem with comic books today,is that even the fans don't
really see it as a medium. (At least I don't) I see comic books as a specific
kind of medium, generally superhero. This is wrong.
Consider the motion picture. Think of the variety and diversity of
movies out there on the market. Now think about the variety and diversity
of comics.
To me, the comics industry is rather like having a film market of soley
science fiction/fantasy films, with a very few people diverging around the
edges. Moore's writing is rather like a few superb films that push at the
boundaries, but never breaks them. He's still IN the genre.
Just think of all the possibilities that aren't being used--!
Someone tell me:
Why is it that the numerous film genres have survived, while
in comics, only the superhero seems to be alive and well?
--Kathy Liscott@hou2g.UUCP (The Brennan Monster) (12/04/85)
>Someone tell me: > Why is it that the numerous film genres have survived, while >in comics, only the superhero seems to be alive and well? > --Kathy Li I think the answer is probably that most other things (detective, horror, space opera, etc.) are done equally well or better in other media (movies, books). Only the superhero is exclusively a comic book genre. There is also a kind of Catch-22 here--people don't read comics because "it's all about that superhero nonsense" while superheroes don't make it in other media because "That's just comic book stuff". Consumable substances for cerebral activity... Scott J. Berry
moriarty@fluke.UUCP (The Napoleon of Crime) (12/05/85)
In article <11140@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU> cc-30@ucbcory.UUCP (Kathy Li c/o Sean "Yoda" Rouse) writes: >[...](I'd >watch out for Watchmen, though. There, Moore will be treating superheroes as >they'd affect the world, e.g. The US gets the first superhero, so the USSR >keels under diplomatically in certain instances because of the superior >military force this superhero represents.) Sounds like Epic's THE ONE, which I am really enjoying... >Someone tell me: > Why is it that the numerous film genres have survived, while >in comics, only the superhero seems to be alive and well? Hmm, err, well... good question, that. Actually, think about what movies generally break down into, genre-wise: Comedy Horror Western Sci-Fi/Fantasy Drama Four of the five genre's above are represented in comics (though, admittedly, the majority fall into Sci-Fi/Fantasy, where the biggest sub-category would be Super-Hero comics). However, comedy comics are doing quite well (Ambush Bug, 'mazing man and Blue Devil all have SH basises, but I think of them as comedy). The western had died in both the theatres and in comics, pretty much. Horror has always been represented in comics (mostly by DC) and is making a comeback in both comics and film (note that Stephen King is a comics fan from way back...). Only Drama seems to have been avoided in comics, and if you look closely, you can find that inherent in Cerebus, Swamp Thing and a couple other titles. I suspect that Drama hasn't been approached since 1) comics are still thought of as Kid's Stuff, and kids don't go to dramatic movies, and 2) if you had a dramatic novel and an adaptation of this novel into comics, how much is added by the art? Answer: a lot if you've got a good creative team in the comics; I suspect there are several people out there (Gene Colan for one) who could do "The Color Purple" very well. Oh, well, a few ideas tossed out... "Oh no, no, no... I'm not beautiful. Just very very pretty." Moriarty, aka Jeff Meyer ARPA: fluke!moriarty@uw-beaver.ARPA UUCP: {uw-beaver, sun, allegra, sb6, lbl-csam}!fluke!moriarty <*> DISCLAIMER: Do what you want with me, but leave my employers alone! <*>