smh@mhuxl.UUCP (henning) (10/23/86)
> Whoever told you that Round-Up doesn't kill animal life was > dead (no pun intended) wrong! That stuff is dangerous and > should be used only with extreme caution. It will kill any > plant it comes in contact with - including, but not limited > to, the plants you wanted to get rid of! Be particularly care- > ful if you buy it in concentrated form and follow all label > directions. I refuse to use it at my house because we have > small children, but some of my neighbors have used it to control > grass shoots coming up between the cracks in their walks. It is > a very effective (and deadly) herbicide. > Jim Greenlee **** **** From the keys of Steve Henning, AT&T Bell Labs, Reading, PA mhuxl!smh Hot water will kill weeds in a walk, but you should have the waste water available from cooking eggs or potatoes or something to make this practical. The cheapest and best method is a spray called ROUNDUP. I have used ROUNDUP for years and have never one bug even get sick from it. I use the concentrate and mix as directed. I have a shallow well and will not spray any poisons around my yard. That is the main reason for using roundup. It is a slow acting spray which must enter green tissue, then is tranlocated to the roots where it kills the roots. Then, about a week later, the plant dies, roots and all. The ROUNDUP is not toxic, it will not kill any plant unless it enters the green tissue. It can not kill roots on contact since contact with soil completely neutralizes it, hence no residual action. Grounds keepers have sprayed a lawn one day and planted the same field two days later. The new grass came in before the old grass died. By the way, ROUNDUP kills grass, as well as weeds. It is most effective on plants which are near maturity and ready to bloom. It should not affect moss. No promises on that one.
jkg@gitpyr.gatech.EDU (Jim Greenlee) (10/24/86)
In article <1132@mhuxl.UUCP> smh@mhuxl.UUCP (henning) writes: >The cheapest and best method is a spray called ROUNDUP. I have used ROUNDUP >for years and have never one bug even get sick from it. I use the concentrate >and mix as directed. ^^^^^^^^^^^---- operative words here The point I wanted to make was that Roundup is a garden chemical and should be used with the same caution you would exercise while using ANY garden chemical. I was highly perturbed to hear that a salesman (allegedly) drank the stuff during a demonstration - I would hardly recommend drinking it, and can't honestly believe anyone would use a herbicide in such a cavalier manner. The other point is that different living things react differently to chemicals. Aspirin is a great pain-reliver for human beings, but will kill an ordinary housecat. Chemicals also react differently depending on how they are ingested (orally vs. through the skin for instance). It is entirely possible that Roundup poses no threat once it is released into the environment, but there is no telling how it will affect you if ingested directly. This is not intended to be a flame towards you, Mr. Henning. I merely wanted to point out the possible danger of not following label directions and using chemicals for purposes other than those for which they were intended. As you pointed out in your reply, there are often methods available for controlling unwanted plants which pose no threat (perceived or otherwise :-) to anyone. Jim Greenlee P.S. - if you somehow read my first reply before I cancelled it, please ignore it. -- The Shadow Georgia Insitute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332 ...!{akgua,allegra,amd,hplabs,ihnp4,seismo,ut-ngp}!gatech!gitpyr!jkg
donn@hpfcdc.HP.COM (Donn Terry) (10/24/86)
As far as I can tell, Roundup and Kleenup are the same thing (read the labels, but I think the active ingredient is "glyphosphate"). In any case, the description recently posted that it must enter in green tissue and be transported to the roots is true (and that it goes away quickly). In fact, I believe the biochemistry is such that when it enters the leaves it is changed chemically into a root poison, and if applied directly to the roots it has no effect (because the untransformed form is not a poison). I have heard of a solution to the specific problem of selective weeding that started this discussion: "paint" the leaves of the unwanted plants (just use a small paintbrush.) It will be transported to the roots, killing that plant, but because a nearby plant did not get it on it's green tissue, it won't be affected (unless you dribble, of course). I've never tried this, so I can't vouch for any gotchas, but it sounds reasonable. Try it in a limited area. Of course you can always try the Colorado form of weed control: snow in early October! Donn Terry HP Ft. Collins, Co.
smh@mhuxl.UUCP (henning) (10/27/86)
**** **** From the keys of Steve Henning, AT&T Bell Labs, Reading, PA mhuxl!smh > As far as I can tell, Roundup and Kleenup are the same thing (read the labels, > but I think the active ingredient is "glyphosphate"). Kleenup is the prediluted form of Roundup. They are glycophosphates. > I have heard of a solution to the specific problem of selective weeding that > started this discussion: "paint" the leaves of the unwanted plants (just > use a small paintbrush.) One easy way to do selective weeding with Roundup or Kleenup is to put on rubber gloves, then put a cotton glove over one rubber glove. Then moisten the cotton glove with Roundup (mixed per directions) and run the "weeds" through your hand or fingers and avoid touching or dripping on the "good" plants. This is a must with bind weed since pulling it out just aggravates the problem since each piece of root forms a new plant.
andrea@hp-sdd.HP.COM (Andrea K. Frankel) (10/28/86)
In article <690002@hpfcdc.HP.COM> donn@hpfcdc.HP.COM (Donn Terry) writes: >I have heard of a solution to the specific problem of selective weeding that >started this discussion: "paint" the leaves of the unwanted plants (just >use a small paintbrush.) My local "Rose Doctor" recommended buying one of those little plastic bottles with the sponge on top that are sold for moistening postage stamps, and using that to dab the stuff on the offending weeds. He also stressed wearing plastic gloves, and throwing the gloves and bottle out after use. I haven't tried it yet - the state of the quackgrass or whatever it is that invades flower beds around here hasn't got to the point where it has overcome my distrust of poisons. But it does sound like the "postage stamp" method would be less subject to accidentally knocking over an open container onto your prize rose bushes or whatever! Andrea Frankel, Hewlett-Packard (San Diego Division) (619) 592-4664 "every time that wheel goes round, bound to cover just a little more ground" ______________________________________________________________________________ UUCP : {hplabs|hp-pcd|hpfcla|hpda|noscvax|gould9|sdcsvax}!hp-sdd!andrea UUCP : {cbosgd|allegra|decvax|gatech|sun|tektronix}!hplabs!hp-sdd!andrea ARPA : hp-sdd!andrea@nosc.arpa CSNET : hp-sdd!andrea@hplabs.csnet USnail: 16399 W. Bernardo Drive, San Diego CA 92127-1899 USA
ruths@dartvax.UUCP (Ruth Sylvester) (10/29/86)
Andrea Frankel writes: "He also stressed wearing plastic gloves, and throwing the gloves and bottle out after use." This just generates another problem, although it's out of sight. Let's not let it be out of mind. Our garbage *is* our problem! (With Roundup, though, because of the quick breakdown on contact with earth, it's less of a problem.) -- Ruth Sylvester UUCP: (decvax or ihnp4 or linus or cornell)!dartvax!ruths
andrea@hp-sdd.HP.COM (Andrea K. Frankel) (11/04/86)
In article <5309@dartvax.UUCP> ruths@dartvax.UUCP (Ruth Sylvester) writes: >Andrea Frankel writes: "He also >stressed wearing plastic gloves, and throwing the gloves and bottle out >after use." This just generates another problem, although it's >out of sight. Let's not let it be out of mind. Our garbage *is* >our problem! (With Roundup, though, because of the quick breakdown >on contact with earth, it's less of a problem.) As I noted, I have yet to actually use any of this stuff, because I share your reaction to increasing the amount of poisonous garbage on the planet we all share. Some cities are investigating or starting "poison disposal" days, where homeowners can bring small quantities of things which really shouldn't be dumped down the drain or thrown into general landfills (weed killers, paints, wood preservatives, etc.); since most of us can't afford to pay for toxic waste disposal for small amounts, this seems like a good idea. Of course, the best idea is to avoid using the gunk in the first place, but the highest organic and environmentalist ideals often get overcome by practicalities such as lack of time, bad backs from weeding, and just plain running out of patience after you pull out the @#%$@%$#! quack grass for the (n+1)st time. I used to hire a local high school kid who loved to weed and clean up yards for $5/hr (he was thrilled to be getting more than miniumum wage; I was thrilled to get someone who actually did what I asked them to). Now that he's off at college, I haven't found any neighborhood kids who will do more than a surface job, and sloppy at that! How do other aspiring organic gardeners deal with weeds and pests when working long hours at the computer or laid up with back problems? (Guilty consciences love company...) Andrea Frankel, Hewlett-Packard (San Diego Division) (619) 592-4664 "every time that wheel goes round, bound to cover just a little more ground" ______________________________________________________________________________ UUCP : {hplabs|hp-pcd|hpfcla|hpda|noscvax|gould9|sdcsvax}!hp-sdd!andrea UUCP : {cbosgd|allegra|decvax|gatech|sun|tektronix}!hplabs!hp-sdd!andrea ARPA : hp-sdd!andrea@nosc.arpa CSNET : hp-sdd!andrea@hplabs.csnet USnail: 16399 W. Bernardo Drive, San Diego CA 92127-1899 USA