jonw@azure.UUCP (Jonathan White) (03/06/84)
Now that the Spring riding season has begun, I am once again reminded of one the things that I hate most about cycling -- DOGS. While I realize that the problem is more the fault of the owners than the dogs themselves, I would like to hear some suggestions for dealing with the immediate situation. Here are a few ideas that I have heard about: 1. Clobber the animal with your pump. This is a good idea in that you usually have a pump handy, but you must be at close range to be effective. 2. Carry a (preferably non-leaky) squirt gun loaded with bleach, ammonia, etc. This sounds like it would work fairly well at medium range, but you would probably have to be stopped to aim accurately. Has anyone out there ever tried this? 3. Carry a car antenna mounted on a handle. This gives you slightly better range than a pump, and has the added benefit of not bending up your pump. :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) Sarcasm follows :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) 4. Carry a .38 Special loaded with hollowpoints. This is the ultimate in range and effectiveness, and could also come in handy for dealing with obnoxious drivers, but does add a certain amount of weight to your bike. So, let's hear it. What is your favorite method of dealing with dogs? Jon White [decvax|ucbvax]!tektronix!tekmdp!azure!jonw
keith@hp-pcd.UUCP (03/08/84)
Regarding dogs...
I used to ride with a guy in the (SF) bay area that referred to his
pump as his "dog tool".
Keith M. Taylor
Corvallis, Oregon
hplabs!hp-pcd!keithtoml@oliveb.UUCP (Dave Long) (03/21/84)
[Jul ner lbh ernqvat guvf?]
What I have found to be very effective are little cap-type devices. They
are sold under various names, such as "Fun Caps", "Finger Snaps", etc. They
look like little twisted tissue-paper thingamajigs, and when enough pressure
is applied, like hitting the ground, they go off with a semi-loud bang. It
should be easy to find them at flea markets.
When throwing them, get enough in your hand to lay down a nice pattern in
front of the dog. It really shocks most dogs, unless it is used to hearing
lound bangs that don't seem to have a cause.
--
Dave Long
{ucbvax,decvax}!decwrl!ios!oliveb!toml
hplabs!oliveb!toml
allegra!oliveb!tomldjl@fisher.UUCP (Dan Levin N6BZA ) (03/21/84)
Having only ever been chased by large, hairy, mean dogs once;
I would hardly call them the bane of the cyclist, but anyway,...
My favorite is to run like *ell. I claim that even with 100lb.
packs I can outpedal anything big enough to make me want to run in
the first place.
--
***dan
{ihnp4 | decvax | ucbvax}!allegra!fisher!djl
The misplaced (you call *that* a mountain ?!?!?) Californianrick@rochester.UUCP (Rick Floyd) (03/21/84)
I have a metal frame pump. It's a bit heavier than the fancy plastic ones, but dogs know I'm serious when I reach for it. I try to either outrun dogs (easy unless I am going uphill) or intimidate them (yell and wave things). This almost always works. I've only had to use the pump once in 15 years of cycling. Before you give a dog that is chasing you the benefit of the doubt, remember that cyclists (even full grown ones) have been killed by dogs. rick floyd uucp: (seismo | allegra)!rochester!rick arpa: rick@rochester
cosmo@ihuxe.UUCP (rv) (03/22/84)
<bite> I prefer the direct approach - ride right at 'em, yelling and screaming. Once past the slightly un-nerved dog, go like crazy - and *don't* look back. Works every time.... rick
bill@utastro.UUCP (William H. Jefferys) (03/22/84)
Everyone ought to be aware that the real danger from
dogs is *not* that they will bite you, but that
they will get under your wheel and cause you to
take a nasty spill. I forget what the number of
accidents due to this cause per year is, but it
is quite substantial (hundreds). So take care when
pedalling furiously away, and don't let your air
pump get caught in the spokes (same result, down you
go!)
--
Bill Jefferys 8-%
Astronomy Dept, University of Texas, Austin TX 78712 (USnail)
{ihnp4,kpno,ctvax}!ut-sally!utastro!bill (uucp)
utastro!bill@ut-ngp (ARPANET)japlaice@watrose.UUCP (John A. Plaice) (03/22/84)
There is really only one good solution to attacking dogs, namely to sprint like hell! Approach the dog slowly, and just as you get to within two or three feet of it, get out of the saddle and sprint away. This method will work virtually all the time, so long as the dog does not do something stupid like run under your front wheel. I once got dropped on a training ride because I had pulled out my pump and could not get it back in. In chasing down the group I passed 5 mean German Sheperds (not all at once), each of whom had been enraged by the group. Despite the fact that I was dead, I still managed to get away. I think the secret is to believe that you can get away, and then you will Cheers, John
thielges@uiuccsb.UUCP (03/23/84)
#R:azure:-260000:uiuccsb:16200007:000:1104 uiuccsb!thielges Mar 22 12:47:00 1984 My favorite technique is just to ignore them. Most rural dogs can have either one of two attitudes toward a biker : 1) They are bored as he** and want to greet a new potential playmate. It may look like he/she wants to kill you, but they usually are playing. 2) They want you out of their territory and will chase you until you leave. I have tried stopping for several seemingly vicious dogs and have never been hurt. The worst that has happened is that I revieved a heavy dose of barking and doggie threat gestures. I think that if a biker acts terrified (by swinging pumps or riding faster) the dog will sense this and assume that you were up to no good and then threaten you. Remember, there are little kids who live where these seemingly vicious dogs live. I'm sure that the owners of most dogs don't want to put their neighbor's kids in danger by letting a mean dog loose. I must admit, however, that the really BIG mean dogs ( > 100lbs) do frighten me. In those cases, a squirt from the water bottle usually does the job. Bart Thielges ...uiucdcs!thielges
george@ganash.UUCP (george philipp) (03/23/84)
The previous techniques for dealing with dogs can be quite effective. However, when traveling in a group of more than 10, outrunning the dog(s) will usually work for an individual but leaves the rest of the group to fend for themselves. The shouting method is very effective. I saw this demonstrated by a large (over 6 foot, broad shouldered) fellow cyclist. When the dogs pursued him, he got off his bike, lifted it over his head and ran screaming after the dogs. Shortly thereafter, the concerned owner came out of the house looking for what had scared her two dogs. A technique which I employ after shouting is to squirt a dog with the water bottle. First, tilt the water bottle down, squeeze the bottle and aim it to hit the dog(s), leaving a trail of water from you to the dog. This is done while riding and has an effective range of 10 to 15 feet. An advantage to this technique is that even if you miss the dog, the water hitting the ground will have a startling effect.
ix21@sdccs6.UUCP (03/24/84)
I suggest mace; anyone who thinks this is overdoing it is welcome to
see the scars of when I was attacked by a dog.
--
David Whiteman sdcsvax!sdccs6!whiteman
UCSD Medical School, La Jolla CA
{insert boring .signature file here}paul@uiucuxc.UUCP (03/25/84)
#R:azure:-260000:uiucuxc:26700003:000:907
uiucuxc!paul Mar 24 13:07:00 1984
I've noticed many more dogs running loose in the Champaign, Illinois
area than anywhere else I've lived. Students, as a whole, seem more
irresponsible than most in regard to their "pets". In any case I've
found the pepper sprays used by postmen to be convenient and effective.
When approaching a dog I have doubts about, I open the bag slightly
for the fast grab. In two months I've had to use it twice when the
usual avoidance methods failed (yelling, sprinting, etc).
I always call the animal patrol when I see animals loose in the
neighborhood. Owners are generally more careful after bailing their
animal out of the pound.
"Nice doggy!" is a good thing to say while looking for the right size
rock. -:}
Paul Pomes
uucp: {decvax,ihnp4,pur-ee,ucbvax}!uiucdcs!uiucuxc!paul
US Mail: Paul Pomes, University of Illinois
1304 W Springfield, Urbana, IL 61801
Phone: 217-333-6262fulk@sunybcs.UUCP (Mark Fulk) (03/26/84)
A previous posting gave the impression that only vicious dogs were a problem. A friend of mine was riding in a group when several dogs began running alongside. They were pedalling fast downhill when one of the dogs cut in front of my friend. She hit him, and ended up unconscious for several hours and with a broken collarbone. She put a nine-inch crack in her Bell Biker helmet, and had she not been wearing it, she'd be dead or a vegetable now. The dog wasn't vicious; it was just stupid about bicycles. My friend had no chance to escape, because she was already headed downhill when the dogs appeared, and they appeared practically beside her. She now carries a can of Halt with her all of the time. -- Mark Fulk ARPA and CSNET: fulk.buffalo@rand-relay UUCP: ...!seismo!rochester!rocksvax!sunybcs!fulk U.S. Mail: Department of Computer Science 226 Bell Hall SUNY at Buffalo Buffalo, NY 14260 (716) 636-3197
hobbit@bnl.UUCP (Al Walker) (03/29/84)
Dogs usually get more excited if you *try* to outrun them. If you are lugging your way up a hill you probably can't do that. If the dog simply will *not* let up, the best thing to do is stop, get off if convenient, and walk straight at the beast with your hand out in a gesture of friendship. I've never seen this fail; either the dog will come drool all over your hand or run away in terror. _H*
conrad@nbires.UUCP (M. Conrad Geiger) (03/29/84)
I have found that dogs in different parts of the country respond in different ways to the cyclist. In Texas where I have riden many a mile, the "rural" dogs as well as "city" dogs were not kept under as close a watch by their owners as in Colorado (where I now reside). In Texas seldom a day passed that I was not chased by at least one dog while riding my bicycle. I have been in Colorado for almost two years and have had only one dog pursue me. What other parts of the country have well trained dogs (or uninterested ones)? conrad geiger nbi boulder, colorado
mrl@drutx.UUCP (LongoMR) (03/29/84)
<> I posted this in net.pets, where I saw the original question of what to do about dogs that chase bicyclists, and have since been informed that it might do better here, so.... _____________________________________________________________________________ Something that has worked rather well in the past is to carry a water pistol with you and squirt the dog in the face. If this doesn't work, prepare a noisemaker by putting about 10 pennies in an empty pop or beer can and tape up the top so that the pennies don't fall out. When the dog chases, give the can a hefty toss NEAR the dog (not at it, Please!) and startle the dog. At the same time, give a good shout (the word "OUT!" is great for this) This is usually enough to stop the dog and make it think twice about chasing you further. Both methods have the desireable effect of implanting negative responses to the action of chasing (which, by the way, is nothing more than a natural hunting instinct) and not harming the animal. If you have recurring problems with the same dog, you should approach the owner for help (they are usually more than happy to set up some "controlled" attacks to break their dog of this habit) and ask for simultaneous correction from him/her by putting the dog on about a 20 foot cotton line with a choke collar on one end and the owner on the other. Just before the dog hits the end of the rope, the owner should turn around and, with a firm grip on the line, walk at a very brisk pace in the other direction. A few days of this should break the dog from chasing. ______________________________________________________________________________ Since I posted that in net.pets, I have read the replies in this newsgroup. Let me say that I am not a cyclist, I am a dog owner. My current breed is Siberian Huskey's, which can be rather headstrong. I don't believe in having untrained dogs, nor do I believe that ANYONE should have to put up with my dogs running on a public throughfare, however, if one of my dogs do get out of its kennel, I, as a responsible dog owner, would appreciate someone acting intelligently, not viciously, towards the animal. I am not a bleeding heart, and can certainly understand someone being intimidated by a 70+ lb. dog coming at them and chasing. Every once in a great while you may run up against a dog that has been mistreated and can be vicious. In this case I would say don't feel too bad about planting your foot smack in between his eyes. If you injure the dog, better it than you (I think my values are in the right place), but for the vast majority of cases, this type of treatment is not necessary. How do you tell before hand? I could, but I doubt if anyone not having experience with dogs would be able to, so I honestly don't know how to answer that question. If this is an ongoing problem with anyone, it might be worth it to invest in a book or two covering animal behavior. Also, buy a dog training book, or just read some excerpts next time you are standing around in a book store. Most books have sections on handling problems with dogs, and chasing cars and bicycles is usually at the top of their list. Also, any training kennel in the Yellow Pages would probably be happy to give advice about a particular problem you are having. Most of these people are experts on dog behavior and don't mind sharing their knowledge. By the way, I am definately a dog lover, but let me say three things that I have read and found to be true: 1) Dogs were the worlds first opportunists; 2) It is simply not true that all dogs want to please; 3) Since dogs are unable to reason, they cannot be held accountable for doing what comes instinctively, but their owners certainly can! Mark Longo Denver, Colorado
thielges@uiuccsb.UUCP (03/31/84)
#R:azure:-260000:uiuccsb:16200009:000:784 uiuccsb!thielges Mar 30 09:34:00 1984 Mark Fulk points out that vicious dogs are not the only ones which are dangerous on the road. He says that a clumsy dog can easily cause a collision on the road. I agree, but I think that the collision problem can be easily avoided if the biker doesn't become so hysterical about approaching dogs and pedel into a dangerous frenzy. I think the safest procedure when being approached by a dog is to slow down to determine whether the dog is vicious or not. If the dog seems to be a threat, squirt him/her with some normal water from your water bottle. If not, enjoy the company and ride slow and carefully until the dog gets out of your way. The squirt bottle technique is a very safe (for both you and the dog) and very effective. Bart Thielges ...uiucdcs!thielges
dave@qtlon.UUCP (Dave Lukes) (04/06/84)
Mow many articles on dogs is that I've just had to read ?? (About 20 I'd guess). Personally I agree with the ``Mace the F**ker'' approach (but I don't like dogs much), so having contributed my -2cents worth, can we all please talk about BICYCLES in future ?? XXXXXXXXXX Dave
rh@mit-eddie.UUCP (Randy Haskins) (04/16/84)
As is usual for me, I advocate letting the dog know who's boss. Yelling "NO!" is good since most animals are conditioned to that word in some form or another. Also, adopt the attitude that if the dog screws with you, you're going to break its neck. Dogs can sense these things even better than people. Cars, on the other hand... I've considered mounting a sheath for a short-sword on my bike. You know, something to take out their tires and ruin THEIR day.... -- Randwulf (Randy Haskins); Path= genrad!mit-eddie!rh
fish@ihu1g.UUCP (Bob Fishell) (04/19/84)
Let 'em know who's boss, huh? Kind of hard to do when they're
in the process of taking your leg off.
There's this medium-sized, ugly, black-and-white mutt that takes off
after me about 3 or 4 times a month, when I follow one of my favorite
routes. He hasn't caught me yet, and I've almost come to enjoy the
sprint he gives me. However, he doesn't seem to understand firm
(or foul) language, and the look of his eyes and fangs lead me to
believe he's not interested in negotiating.
I've seen some recommendations about carrying a cheap water bottle
filled with a weak ammonia solution, to be squirted in the mutt's
face when he gets too close. My reaction to this is that it's
rather hard to aim a water bottle when you're straining in a 100-inch
gear to get away from him.
As for cars, I don't think a short sword would help much. I have
an idea for mounting a Schmiesser machine gun on the handlebars,
but I'm not having much luck with it.
--
Bob Fishell
ihnp4!ihu1g!fish