schwager@uiucdcs.UUCP (05/07/84)
#N:uiucdcs:38200007:000:2113 uiucdcs!schwager May 7 11:01:00 1984 I'm considering getting some biking shoes and wonder if anyone out there can lend an opinionated hand. Some things to go on: -I plan on doing much long distance touring, though right now all I've done are 15 mile training rides. Should I get touring shoes or cleated shoes? Silly question, you might say. Well, since getting my bike and through my experience as a runner, I've found that little things make a big difference over the long run. So are the benefits of cleats while on the bike vs. a Bata Biker, say, with just a flat sole worth it? Let me say that I consider a small inconvenience like having to change shoes when getting off the bike not worth worrying about. You with experience, what have you to say? -In the same vane, I'm considering the Avocet touring shoes. Are they almost as good as cleats, having those four little grooves in the bottom of them? Then again, I've read that a four percent error in the height of your seat with respect to a certain formula (from Eugene Sloan's Bicycle Maintenance Manual) can affect your efficiency by an even greater amount. Likewise, maybe I need a finer tuning of my foot position than the Avocets would be able to give me? -Speaking of foot position, how do I determine what is the best position? Can improper foot position (I've got toe clips and love 'em- I won't be putting my arches on the pedals) cause me injury? That might be another bad point about the Avocets- the grooves would determine the rotation of my foot on the pedal. I've notice that my heels like to move in a bit. So I could go with the Bata Bikers, but then there's the point of greater efficiency with grooves or cleats. Could make a differece over 10 hours of cranking. Any help you can lend would be appreciated. Sorry about the length; I've got a lot of questions on my mind. I realize the importance of quality equipment over the long haul, and I'd like to make an informed position. By the way, I know the Avocets are $7 more than the Bikers, but if worth it, I don't consider it much of a burden. -mike schwager (uiucdcs!schwager)
schwager@uiucdcs.UUCP (05/08/84)
#R:uiucdcs:38200007:uiucdcs:38200008:000:349 uiucdcs!schwager May 7 19:01:00 1984 In my previous note I said: > a lot of questions on my mind. I realize the importance of quality equipment > over the long haul, and I'd like to make an informed position. By the way, What I should have said was, "and I'd like to make an informed DECISION." Maybe I should send the original to net.singles? :-} -mike schwager (uiucdcs!schwager)
kfl@hoxna.UUCP (Kenton Lee) (05/08/84)
xxxx I've been using Duegi touring shoes (flat soles, no cleats) for the last couple of years and am very pleased. The soles are very stiff, but walking is no problem, as long as you don't try hiking. I've put a few thousand miles on them and they look like they could stand a few thousand more (I had a pair of Bata bikers before these, and they only lasted one biking season). I've never tried cleats, but am considering getting a pair of cleated shoes. With the flat soles on touring shoes, your feet slip around a little (mostly rotating side to side, rather than sliding forward and back). Cleats would remove that problem. Cleats would also give you more pulling power on the upstroke. I have heard only complaints about slotted soles on touring shoes, because the slots are never in the right place. By the way, I have heard speculation that toe clips add about 20 to 25% efficiency and that cleats add another 20 or 25%. Does anyone concur? -- Kenton Lee, Bell Labs - WB wb3g!kfl or hoxna!kfl
c-hunt@tesla.UUCP (05/09/84)
I have found biking shoes essential; but cleated shoes are likely just for racing or perhaps the truly fanatic tourist. I've tried three non-cleat shoes: Bata Biker, Bata Wintour, and Avocet II. The Batas are fine for pedaling, uncomfortable for walking, do not fix a position for the foot, but are, in my opinion, the best value. The wintour is strictly a cold-weather shoe. The Avocet is more comfortable for walking, comfortable for pedaling, but mine were weak construction and only lasted a single season before self-destructing (the others last longer); also, they're a touch overpriced. The notches in the Avocets are so wide that they don't really seem to fix an orientation as a cleat would: its mainly a gimic. I've tried several cleated shoes: here the concern is mainly proper fit (since everyone uses different lasts) and cleat preference. For the most part, you get what you pay for. I've found that Puma and "Colnago" (I don't know who the real manufacturer is) are wider than others (ie, more "American"). Since quick extraction from the pedal is essential around traffic, I wouldn't encourage these kinds of shoes for touring except if you'll be only on the open road. =Charles Hunt= ...!cornell!tesla!c-hunt
grt@hocda.UUCP (G.TOMASEVICH) (05/11/84)
> Since quick > extraction from the pedal is essential around traffic, I wouldn't encourage > these kinds of shoes for touring except if you'll be only on the open road. Nonsense! I commute to work daily with cleats and am sure many others do so also. Before moving here, I lived in NYC for 8 years and used cleats in the city traffic regularly, preferrably on a track bike. Why do you suppose someone proposed a track-stand contest at a red light? One learns it on all kinds of bikes when using them. I never had a problem in traffic as a result of having cleats. G. Tomasevich
schwager@uiucdcs.UUCP (05/15/84)
#R:uiucdcs:38200007:uiucdcs:38200010:000:525 uiucdcs!schwager May 15 08:26:00 1984 . > By the way, I have heard speculation that toe clips add about 20 to > 25% efficiency and that cleats add another 20 or 25%. Does anyone > concur? > -- > Kenton Lee, Bell Labs - WB > wb3g!kfl or hoxna!kfl > /* ---------- */ I've read in Bicycling Magazine (you want the issue and page, right? -Riiiight :-) that toe clips and cleats can add 40% efficiency. I'll try and find the page and article- I know it was a recent issue. I was pretty surprised when I read that number! -mike schwager (ihnp4!uiucdcs!schwager)