ix286@sdcc6.UUCP (ix286) (01/02/85)
Perhaps many of you will be surprised to find out that "cold toes" could be a problem in San Diego. At 6 AM the sun is not up and the temperatures are typically in the low 40's. My toes do not reach the point of stinging pain that a five mile walk through wet New England snow will bring, but they are quite noticeably cold and numb. I have tried multiple socks with no relief. For $7.95 I tried "toe warmers" ( they fit over the toe clips ). The result was the same. I am now preparing to clunk down another $15 to $30 on overboots that can be worn with cleats. I am concerned that, even if they fit easily into the toe clips, the boot by constant rubbing will decay in no time or less. Anyone with any experience with these boots or other methods of keeping our dearly beloved, albiet neglected, extremities warm is welcomed to reply. Many Thanks, Bill
diegob@cca.UUCP (01/03/85)
I'm responding to Bill's inquiry about cold toes while riding. I suspect that shoe fit may have a lot to do with the trouble. You see, when you ride in warmer weather with light socks, the rather snug-fitting European-lasted shoes are normally comfortable. However, when used with heavier socks, the tighter fit tends to restrict circulation and allows the temperature of the feet to drop. So much so, in fact, that one experiences the kind of sharp biting pain even in the relatively mild San Diego winters. Also, your foot may have grown a half size or so since you bought your last pair of cycling shoes. (I'd been wearing 11 1/2B for about 20 years, but suddenly last year I went up a half size.) I strongly urge that you go to a (any) shoe dealer or bike shop and get a proper fitting. If a larger shoe is indicated, that will probably resolve the "cold toes" problem. diego@cca
smh@mit-eddie.UUCP (Steven M. Haflich) (01/04/85)
Cold toes: For two years I commuted on a 10-speed bicycle all winter
through deepest darkest Milwaukee. The first winter my drivers license
expired, so one late December 5-degree-F 25-MPH-wind morning I donned my
expedition down parka, goggles, wool mittens, expedition overmitts, and
summer loafers [??!?] for a jaunty jaunt 3 miles upwind to the Motor
Vehiclicide Department downtown. (The three staffers there, not really
expecting to see anyone at all crazy enought to come out on such a day,
were very amused by the genuine icicles hanging from my moustache. They
passed me on the written exam anyway.)
Yes, indeedy, everything else was fine, but my toes were just about
frjorgled off!! GNUMBZVILLE! Subsequently I learned that sensible
(thick wool) socks are an important first line of defense. However, the
most important thing is maintaining circulation! Toe clips? It's
astounding how much tight shoes and toe clips can restrict circulation.
It makes sense to loosen clips in very cold weather and to make a point
of relaxing the feet in the stirrups (or removing therefrom) every tenth
mile or so.
Every New England backpacker knows that if one's feet are cold, the best
thing to do is to put on a hat! If you can maintain circulation to the
extremeties anmd insulate *most* of the body, the circulatory system
will of necessity spill excess heat to the perphery, i.e., feet and
hands. That keeps them warm. Otherwise the body is marvelously adapted
to chilee the feet and hands in order to maintain temperature in the
all-important central body core. By the way, if you are a cheap miserly
New-England-Yankee like me, you can save a few dollars per heating
season by wearing a wool cap and sweater indoors during the wee hours
when the setback thermometer has done its thing. Either that, or drink
lots of Jamaican rum. Or both -- but I digress...
Incidentally, the entire Milwaukee 1980-81 winter I was only forced to
abandon bicycle and walk for *3* days. I was doing even better 81-82
when on Feb. 18 a charming 16-year-old driving daddy's van put me in
plaster for 7.5 months ... but that's another story. Anyway, the
{ac,in}cident happened during a warm spell, so than really doesn't
count.fisher@banzai.DEC (Ed Fisher, 381-2377) (01/04/85)
Subject: COLD TOES >>Perhaps many of you will be surprised to find out that "cold toes" >>could be a problem in San Diego. At 6 AM the sun is not up and the >>... I'm not surprised -- The last ride of my recent visit was Buckman Springs-Campo-Jacumba-Live Oak Spings- on Dec 17, enjoyed it a lot. Two years ago I rode a lot in the fall and winter in New Hampshire and Massachusetts. At that time I used some vinyl shoe covers that I got from the Midwest; I think it was a place called Hartley's. On really cold days (-5 to 20 deg F) I would wear wool socks, Bata Wintours (touring shoe), a pair of heavy wool socks over the shoes, and the vinyl booties. My feet were often so warm that I could tip out the booties to dump the sweat (excuse me, perspiration). The weather would have to warm up a lot to make it worth removing them because my inner socks would be damp. Those booties cost about $17 but displayed very little wear from the toe clips -- pretty good considering that there is no cleat to keep them from moving and there was so much stuffing inside them that they were forced against the clips all around. There was more wear on the undersurface from the few times I had to step on the ground. They were zippo (terrible) for traction when I had to walk around ice (uphill, yuch). Total riding like this was about 400 miles. I now use cleats and have a pair of Duegi overboots and a pair of Brancales. I have not noticed any wear on them yet from the toe clips. Competition in the marketplace is great, these were about $18 a pair, I don't think anyone could sell the vinyl booties for $17 anymore. These are much more durable. Only problem I had was when I was riding in freezing rain on Jan 1. Water comes in the cleat holes and works its way through the shoes. That bothered me more than the icicles on my helmet. BUT my toes were warmer than my fingers. Neither combination is as good as the 4 layer approach above -- mostly because of the cleat hole. I have yet to cut a cleat hole in my oversized socks to try that out, but soon we will get the sub-zeroes and the chance will arise. Summary: I would not worry about the wear. I think most serious cyclists will go through bike shoes as fast as or faster than they go through overboots.
kinne@asgb.UUCP (01/04/85)
To avoid cold toes, or cold anything else, when riding in low temperatures, put on a warm hat and gloves or mittens. The body is a single distributed source of heat, with several forms of losses, the most significant of which is loss from the skin. If over a period of time the heat produced is not equal to that lost, the body responds but shutting off the heat flow to the extremities (fingers and toes). In the extreme this results in frostbite; what you are experiencing is a minor symptom of the same problem. Since there is relatively little heat loss from the toes, wearing warmer socks has little value. Most of the heat lost by the body is from the head, face, neck, and hands, because they are least protected and are very good radiators. Covering them is the most effective way of reducing heat loss. In this case the physics of the situation are confirmed by many years of experience in back country skiing, winter mountaineering, and winter running in Colorado. Bob Kinne ASG Burroughs
miller@nlm-mcs.ARPA (Nancy Miller) (01/04/85)
Either two pairs of socks or the shoe covers and one pair of socks should
work. However, since it seems to be the effective wind when you are riding
and it is 40 degrees out that it really making your feet cold, I suggest
putting plastic bags, or something equally wind-resistant, under the outermost
socks.
--
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Nancy Miller
(miller@nlm-mcs.arpa)srt@ucla-cs.UUCP (01/06/85)
As a poor student in St. Louis, I was forced to use my bike through all
kinds of weather. It may seem amazing, but you can actually ride through
several feet of snow. Probably isn't too good on your bike, though.
At any rate, we found we could avoid cold toes by removing the straps from
our toe clips and using the clips stand alone. Of course you get less
binding, but your circulation is much improved. This also allows you to
bike in sturdier shoes, or even boots. (No doubt the purists choke on that
idea, but try barrelling through a four foot drift in Batas. You'll wear
boots the next time.)
Scott R. Turner
UCLA Computer Science Department
3531 Boelter Hall, Los Angeles, CA 90024
ARPA: srt@UCLA-LOCUS.ARPA
UUCP: ...!{cepu,ihnp4,trwspp,ucbvax}!ucla-cs!srtjans@mako.UUCP (Jan Steinman) (01/07/85)
In article <113@decwrl.UUCP> fisher@banzai.DEC (Ed Fisher, 381-2377) writes: >Subject: COLD TOES >... On really cold days (-5 to 20 deg F) I would >wear wool socks, Bata Wintours (touring shoe), a pair of heavy >wool socks over the shoes, and the vinyl booties. My feet were >often so warm... (All together now...) HOW WARM WERE THEY? (Sorry. Couldn't resist.) An alternative I've used for years -- warm, dry, and really long lasting -- are rock climbing boots. Use the kind that look like a bench grinder took off all the tread. They slip in and out of cleats easily, are stiff enough to stand on a 1/2 inch ledge, and could conceivably support cleats, although I've not put any on. The one's I have are Galibeir (sp) RD's, which go over the ankle. With several warmed-in coats of Sno-Seal and tight laces, I can \stand/ in ankle deep water without getting wet feet. I usually wear a thin wool sock underneath. I've been using these for six years and the bottom sole is just beginning to come unglued a bit at the edges. The advantage over methods involving layers, overboots, oversocks, etc. is simplicity, endurance and ease of care. -- :::::: Jan Steinman Box 1000, MS 61-161 (w)503/685-2843 :::::: :::::: tektronix!tekecs!jans Wilsonville, OR 97070 (h)503/657-7703 ::::::
cly@cbdkc1.UUCP (Carl Yaffey) (01/09/85)
If you find yourself out on a ride and your foot protection has proven inadequate, try getting off your bike every 30 minutes or so and (GASP!) walking for a couple of minutes. Works wonders. -- Carl Yaffey at AT&T Bell Laboratories Columbus, Ohio 614-860-3399 cbosgd!cbdkc1!cly