T3B@psuvm.BITNET (08/06/85)
I am requesting advice about safety, utility, and models of motorscooters.
My 16 year old daughter wants a motor scooter, and I have typical middle-ager's
worries about its safety. She is a competent bicyclist and will have
(auto) driver's license within about a month. I am an experienced bicyclist,
but have never owned a motorcycle or scooter. Are these things reasonably
safe transportation? She is especially interested in a Vespa--any comments
on this?
howard@sfmag.UUCP (H.M.Moskovitz) (08/09/85)
> I am requesting advice about safety, utility, and models of motorscooters. > My 16 year old daughter wants a motor scooter, and I have typical middle-ager's > worries about its safety. She is a competent bicyclist and will have > (auto) driver's license within about a month. I am an experienced bicyclist, > but have never owned a motorcycle or scooter. Are these things reasonably > safe transportation? She is especially interested in a Vespa--any comments > on this? > Motorscooters seem to be an alternative to mopeds. They are somewhere in between a moped and a motorcycle in terms of speed and weight. They are less fuss than a moped for service but a little more than a late-model motorcycle. They are reasonably safe. They are safer than a motorcycle (a little easier to ride) since they can't go as fast and have a very lowww center of gravity. Vespa is the oldest maker of scooters that I know of but be warned: they are dying out and finding a place to repair them ( and even worse, parts) may be very hard. I reccomend that you look at the scooters that Honda makes. They are attractive and practically maintainance-free, but most importantly, they are service by any of thousands of Honda dealers. Yamaha also makes a line of scooters but they are not as popular or as widely stocked as the Hondas. -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- Howard Moskovitz AT&T Info. Systems attunix!howard
smh@mit-eddie.UUCP (Steven M. Haflich) (08/12/85)
Cautions about motorscooters: The wheels tend to be small relative to motorcycles and bicycles, so potholes and other road hazards are rather more dangerous. They *are* capable of going a lot faster than the average bicyclist. The low rider position makes them possibly less visible in traffic.
djw@lanl.ARPA (08/13/85)
In article <2036T3B@psuvm> T3B@psuvm.BITNET writes: >I am requesting advice about safety, utility, and models of motorscooters. > Are these things reasonably >safe transportation? She is especially interested in a Vespa--any comments >on this? > I bought my first scooter when I was 15. I rode scooters until I was 20 and was in an accident due to a design flaw in the scooter. I had a Lambretta but the same flaw was in the Vespas back then ( 1964 ). They don't seem to be too different now. **NOTE** I have not checked this out because we don't have Vespa, Lambretta, Honda scooter dealerships around here. The problem is: The fork design came from bicycles and not motorcycles. That is, the fork tube comes straight up through the headset and is grasped by a "Friction Fit Collar" MADE OF POTMETAL ( cast aluminum or something similar). The terminal graphics aren't good enough for me to describe the fitting, Please stand by while I think of a suitable description. Remember how the handlebars on your bicycle slipped through a U-shaped fastener which was seized by a bolt? The handlebars on a scooter are attached to the fork post in that manner. The piece that attaches to the fork post is made of a brittle metal which is easily cracked when the front forks bottom out ( as in wheelstands or potholes ). When this piece is cracked or stretched ( just a smidgeon, ) the handlebars will no longer turn the front wheels in an emergency... The front wheels will still turn most of the time and you'll think everything is OK, but any panic turns just won't be executed. The handlebars will turn and the front wheel won't, the handlebar will twist on the fork tube just like it used to on your bicycle when the bolt down through the headset was loose. For this major reason and thousands of minor reasons I recommend a small motorcycle. The small motorcycles you are liable to find to buy will have been designed for off-road ( trail bike/ motorcross ) use and will be an order of magnitude stronger than the scooters you've been looking at. ( Unless you've found and old Cushman Eagle; the single exception to what I've said above - and made by Harley Davidson - those people of AMF until recently. ) The tall wheels do make the bike safer with respect to potholes, but the scooters project a certain image as do the motorscooters. Your daughter is 16, if she will go along with your suggestion and you are truly willing, just bite the bullet and go to a motorscooter store and find what is there. PS, the Vespa Ciao looks like it avoids these problems, but it is too frail. An inquisitive 12-year-old boy can destroy a Ciao in 15 minutes. I spent 4 1/2 months in traction because of the potmetal handlebars on my brand new Lambretta. Seven months to learn to walk again. They wanted to cut my leg off but my mother made them promise to get my permission since I was just 4 months short of being 21... It happened the day before her 40th birthday. Hell of a present. Dave Wade P.S. You will still be able to get Harley Davidson parts in America for a while yet, just drive into any bowling alley and take them off the pin setting machine... :-)
marauder@fluke.UUCP (Bill Landsborough) (08/16/85)
In my opinion they are not safe for anyone who plans to go anywhere except around a controlled enviornment (such as exclusively on a University or large corporation). Scooters have very small wheels and steer very quickly therefore oversteering is a problem. Also the wheels get caught in ruts easily. But the main problem is that people tend to think of them as just a toy. Not as a vehicle which demands respect. So they ride with shorts and sandals and no helmet because, "Its just a scooter, I can't get hurt." Well they do get hurt, often because they don't take precautions. Another problem with small motorcycles and scooters is that they can't stay up with traffic. When traffic is going 50 up an incline and the scooter can only go 35 mph the cars will pass, regardless whether there is room or not. So the scooter rider is forced to drive on the shoulder and be subject to rocks, parked cars, glass and all of the surprises that bicycles have to contend with only at a much higher speed. Bill Landsborough -- "Love is patient and kind; love is not jealous or boastful; it is not arrogant or rude... Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things." 1 Corinthians 13:4-7
maciag@spar.UUCP (Chris Maciag) (08/31/85)
In article <2036T3B@psuvm> T3B@psuvm.BITNET writes: >I am requesting advice about safety, utility, and models of motorscooters. >My 16 year old daughter wants a motor scooter, and I have typical middle-ager's >worries about its safety. I used to ride a vespa and a moped before I bought my Honda XL500. I would say stay away from mopeds of any kind and go for the scooter or vespa. First, crossing busy streets is close to impossible on a moped (because of its lack of accelleration). Secondly, mopeds are much lighter and cheaper than vespas. They need more service and slide out from under you easier because of this. Vespas also can go fast enough to ride in a lane rather than in the bike lane. This keeps alot of people from 'sharing' lanes with you and avoids problems with cars making right turns (one of the most common bike/moped accident). Finally, with the better acceleration and braking of a vespa or scooter, it is easier to avoid an accident. I would say buy one of the larger scooters or a vespa, or even a small motorcyle (you need a class 4 license for a vespa or scooter anyway). I think I am safer on my XL 500 than I was on my vespa or moped, but the vespa is safe enough. -Chris
gnu@l5.uucp (John Gilmore) (09/03/85)
I looked at Vespas abut 5 years ago and decided on a Honda motorcycle because the Vespa cost the same and had lousy brakes, lousy mirrors, lousy acceleration -- in general, a lot less control. These days my opinion has changed, and if I wasn't into long distance touring, I'd have a scooter for around town. The local Honda shop has about 3 new scooters out and they look pretty good; I've seen other Japanese motorcycle mfrs also making scooters now. These mfr's know how to engineer a good machine, unlike Vespa. Watch out for cost-cutting measures like no mirrors or only one side mirror though -- it lowered my already low opinion of Yamaha when I found them selling bikes that way to reduce the sticker price. Jeez, somebody might have been dumb enough to actually BUY it and RIDE it that way... If you're concerned about safety, ride it yourself, or get a friend to ride it. Check the brakes, mirrors, controls. Make sure that you can stop it, turn it, etc quickly without its going out of control. (Your daughter will need to do that when a little old lady pulls out of a driveway right in front of her.) DON'T get a moped; if you want that class of machine, get a good bicycle (where she'll have to WORK to get up to a speed where the bike won't handle well). The other big thing is: get good riding lessons for her. Most of the accidents occur in the first 6 months of ownership. If you get her past that stage in one piece, she'll be OK for a long time. My impression is that a scooter offers more protection in case of an accident (and certainly more weather protection) but I have only test driven them. I've ridden motorcycles for about 80,000 miles over 15 years.
djw@lanl.ARPA (09/03/85)
In article <62@l5.uucp> gnu@l5.uucp (John Gilmore) writes: > >My impression is that a scooter offers more protection in case of an >accident (and certainly more weather protection) but I have only test >driven them. I've ridden motorcycles for about 80,000 miles over 15 years. I firmly believe that you are mistaken. When I had my accident the scooter tried to dive under the car due to the small front tires. A motorcycle would have rebound from the bumper in a different manner. I would be interested in reading of some tests if anyone has bothered to do them. A scooter is much more dangerous on a wet street than a motorcycle. The scooter doesn't have to lean over nearly as far to have the tires slip out to the side. And anyone who thinks a scooter doesn't go fast - hasn't ridden one lately. That 1961 Lambretta that did my knee in would do a wheelstand if you inadvertently "popped" the clutch in third gear >45 miles an hour. A scooter running down the highway on its back wheel at 45 mph is not very aereodynamic; you fall away from any vagrant breeze. I remember rideing "two-up" ( a practice to be discouraged with extreme vigour ) across the Oakland-Bay Bridge around 6pm once. The cars crossed at ~70 mph so the wind inside the bridge moves from "the city" to Oakland at 70 mph and so did this little 150cc Lambretta with two 170 lb. adults... Exhilerating to say the least. Buy her a small motorcycle ( NOT A MOPED-TYPE ). This is really the voice of experience talking. Dave Wade
keesan@bbncc5.UUCP (Morris M. Keesan) (09/04/85)
Please restrict any further discussion of motor-powered vehicles to net.cycle
(Note the "Followup-To:" line in the header of this article). To do this, you
simply remove "net.bicycle" from the "Newsgroups:" line.
The subject of motorscooters is of little interest to bicyclists.
--
Morris M. Keesan
keesan@bbn-unix.ARPA
{decvax,ihnp4,etc.}!bbncca!keesandiego@cca.UUCP (Diego Gonzalez) (09/04/85)
I'd like to offer two points for consideration. 1) The motor scooter was very popular in the early sixties because of its "international" flavor and low price. However, in my state, there were very serious considerations of legislation to restrict use because of the high number of accidents associated with motor scooters. Helmet use was eventually required, but helmets do not protect against broken limbs or a variety of other bodily injuries. If it were my sixteen year old daughter, I would look at her transportation requirements very carefully. Since the majority of traffic on this net is about pedal-powered equipment, I would recommend starting with that option. If short-distance travel on low-traffic routes is the object, some of the better mo-peds are well built and offer a motorized alternative. If your daughter has a real need to travel about and you have serious concerns for her safety, I would seriously consider finding a serviceable used car (what our grandparents called a "flivver"). Motor scooters and mo-peds are designed for the European environment where population density, narrow streets and congested traffic, and (most important) very expensive gas make them very practical. There are large numbers of these vehicles on the roads there, and drivers are generally more alert to their presence and driving/riding characteristics. Here in America, although some of the advantages remain for this type of transportation, the predominance of straight-road, heavy vehicle mentality among our drivers makes the use of scooters and mo-peds a risky undertaking. Any young person reaching the age of majority and entering new worlds of discovery and opportunity should learn some lessons in real-life practicality. 2) This net has concerned itself with (primarily) human-powered vehicles, mostly bicycles in the traditional form. If you are fairly resolved on purchasing a motor scooter for your daughter and are only concerned with how to determine the value and quality of the choices, I suggest you pose your questions to net.consumer. That net has a great deal of expertise in assessing comparable products and shopping for good deals and reputable dealers.