clarke@utcsri.UUCP (Jim Clarke) (09/30/85)
I'm new to this newsgroup, so the question I raise may either have been brought
up twice a year for the last five years or be considered beneath contempt by
most readers. However, here goes:
I use my bicycle mostly for short (1-3 km) commutes along pretty busy
streets. Here in Toronto most motorists are fairly considerate, in my
opinion, but once or twice in every ride someone will try to readjust my
left ankle. Under a certain amount of pressure at home, partly because
I used to ride daily with my 3-year-old on the back, I eventually bought
one of those plastic waggly things with a red flag on the end that sticks
out into the traffic. I didn't like to do it, because as a motorist I
find them a little annoying ("I don't need that thing to tell me how much
space to leave."), but to save my neck from the inconsiderate drivers I
decided to risk annoying others.
Problem: My impression, based on rather poor statistics so far, is that
*more* drivers come too close with this flag than without. Sample event:
I protest in my usual mild way, and get the answer (extensively edited)
"I didn't hit you. I didn't even hit that thing [indicating the flag].
So what are you worried about?"
The numbers are small, as I said, so I can't be sure. But the villain's
reaction suggests a theory, namely that drivers are trying to just miss my
flag, instead of leaving a sensible margin around my corporeal self. Weak
theory plus weak numbers suggest the flag may be increasing the danger.
Do others agree? Is there a standard net.bicycle opinion on this? (Please,
if there is, mail it to me instead of posting it.)
--
Jim Clarke -- Dept. of Computer Science, Univ. of Toronto, Canada M5S 1A4
(416) 978-4058
{allegra,cornell,decvax,ihnp4,linus,utzoo}!utcsri!clarkerdb@drutx.UUCP (BurnhamRD) (10/03/85)
Your evaluation that the red flag on your bicycle may be more dangerous than without may be correct. Motorists seem to be always pushing the limits, such as the speed limit. I ride on busy streets also. I do not use a red flag, but I do make use of the white line on the street when I can. I find that many motorist will drive as close to me as they can without crossing that line. On a narrow street this makes me very nervous. Bob drutx!rdb
fred@varian.UUCP (Fred Klink) (10/03/85)
> > I use my bicycle mostly for short (1-3 km) commutes along pretty busy > streets. Here in Toronto most motorists are fairly considerate, in my > opinion, but once or twice in every ride someone will try to readjust my > left ankle. Under a certain amount of pressure at home, partly because > I used to ride daily with my 3-year-old on the back, I eventually bought > one of those plastic waggly things with a red flag on the end that sticks > out into the traffic. I didn't like to do it, because as a motorist I > find them a little annoying ("I don't need that thing to tell me how much > space to leave."), but to save my neck from the inconsiderate drivers I > decided to risk annoying others. > > Problem: My impression, based on rather poor statistics so far, is that > *more* drivers come too close with this flag than without. Sample event: > I protest in my usual mild way, and get the answer (extensively edited) > "I didn't hit you. I didn't even hit that thing [indicating the flag]. > So what are you worried about?" > > The numbers are small, as I said, so I can't be sure. But the villain's > reaction suggests a theory, namely that drivers are trying to just miss my > flag, instead of leaving a sensible margin around my corporeal self. Weak > theory plus weak numbers suggest the flag may be increasing the danger. There's a principle supposedly used by traffic engineers that anything that attracts too much of a drivers attention without having an immediate and obvious meaning is hazardous. The reason being, the motorist tends to look at the object a bit too intently and unconsciously drive *toward* it! I've heard or read that that's why those long poles with an orange flag on the end that were popular with cyclists a few years ago have gone (deservedly) away. I have an experience with a leg light that may confirm that. I was riding one night and was nearly side-swiped by a station wagon that looked alot like my girlfriend's mother's car. Stopping at her house after the ride, the mother saw me unstrapping the leg light and said "Oh, that was you. I thought it was a UFO" Good thing for me she decided against saving the earth that night!
clarke@utcsri.UUCP (Jim Clarke) (10/04/85)
In article <118@drutx.UUCP> rdb@drutx.UUCP (BurnhamRD) writes: > ... I ride on busy streets >also. I do not use a red flag, but I do make use of the white line >on the street when I can. I find that many motorist will drive as >close to me as they can without crossing that line. On a narrow >street this makes me very nervous. Oh, to have a white line! Here we share the rightmost lane with the cars. When there is a white line, it defines the rightmost edge of the roadway, and vehicles are not supposed to travel to the right of the line. Bicycles are legally vehicles here. In fact, the only case I know of where there is a white line on a city road that I ride on is indeed a city "bicycle route". But as far as I can make out the white line is intended to make space for cars parked right of it to open their doors without wiping out bicycles. Naturally the line is widely interpreted as meaning "bicycles stay right of here", but as far as I can make out that isn't so. Continuing this digression, what we have in this case is a bicycle route that is *more* dangerous than when it was an ordinary old road. It used to be a standard four-lane road that was only as dangerous as any four- lane road. To make it a bicycle route, it was converted to two lanes, each somewhat wider than the old ones but not twice as wide, apparently so that there would be one stream of cars with space for bicycles beside them. The extra space left over was used for the white-line delineated parking mentioned above. Result? Two streams of cars now squeeze into the single wide lane, and bicycles have even more trouble not getting squashed. However, presumably the city's parking revenues have increased. Sorry to go on like this. I guess the point of this note is just that the flag issue is a bit different here, since we're out there in the cold with the cars. Sounds like Denver might be a better place to be. -- Jim Clarke -- Dept. of Computer Science, Univ. of Toronto, Canada M5S 1A4 (416) 978-4058 {allegra,cornell,decvax,ihnp4,linus,utzoo}!utcsri!clarke
clarke@utcsri.UUCP (Jim Clarke) (10/08/85)
Maybe I was too modest in my earlier request for comments on this issue.
I have received three replies, all interesting, but none reflecting any
previous discussion and all asking me to post what I find out.
So... if you have any opinions, whether based on expert knowledge in some
field, observational evidence (that's science talk for accidents), or
simple prejudice, mail it to me and I'll post a summary or a digest along
about the beginning of November, after I finish marking my midterms.
--
Jim Clarke -- Dept. of Computer Science, Univ. of Toronto, Canada M5S 1A4
(416) 978-4058
{allegra,cornell,decvax,ihnp4,linus,utzoo}!utcsri!clarke