[net.bicycle] "STOCK" touring bikes

love@mhuxr.UUCP (LINDENBERGER) (03/03/86)

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I am in the market for a good touring bike. A local dealer tells me that 
modern automated production techniques have enabled the Japanese to produce
very high quality frames at reasonable cost. Two that he reccomends are
Shogun and Miyata. All alloy construction, and rims. TRIPLE butted tubes
sounds intelligent to me. Shimano cantilever brakes and deraileurs. Each 
offers what the dealer says is a fine quality touring bike, designed to go
the distance, for around $400. complete. 
Each companies' lit points out that they have done their homework and have
designed the frames for the specific application. (They offer touring,racing,
sport, all-terrain models for example, each with different designs and materials.) 
My question: after seeing on this net that many people spend MUCH more for
a bike, how far off the mark would I be if I found a "stock" bike that fit me?
Also, of course any specific comments on those two manufacturers would
be appreciated.

Happy rolling!    Stew Lindenberger     AT&T Bell Labs  Murray Hill NJ

peters@cubsvax.UUCP (Peter S. Shenkin) (03/03/86)

In article <mhuxr.552> love@mhuxr.UUCP (LINDENBERGER) writes:
>I am in the market for a good touring bike. A local dealer tells me that 
>modern automated production techniques have enabled the Japanese to produce
>very high quality frames at reasonable cost. Two that he reccomends are
>Shogun and Miyata. All alloy construction, and rims. TRIPLE butted tubes
>sounds intelligent to me. Shimano cantilever brakes and deraileurs. Each 
>offers what the dealer says is a fine quality touring bike, designed to go
>the distance, for around $400. complete. 

I've been very happy with my Univega Gran Turissimo, in the same price
range.  I got it at Toga, 64th & West End Ave., in Manhattan.  For a little
more you can get a Specialized (though they're hard to find on the East
coast), which is probably a better bike.  Miyata is good;  I don't know
Shogun.

Peter S. Shenkin	 Columbia Univ. Biology Dept., NY, NY  10027
{philabs,rna}!cubsvax!peters		cubsvax!peters@columbia.ARPA

wagner@uw-june (Dave Wagner) (03/06/86)

In article <552@mhuxr.UUCP>, love@mhuxr.UUCP (LINDENBERGER) writes:
> I am in the market for a good touring bike. A local dealer tells me that 
> ....[one can get]  a fine quality touring bike, designed to go
> the distance, for around $400. complete. 
> My question: after seeing on this net that many people spend MUCH more for
> a bike, how far off the mark would I be if I found a "stock" bike that fit me?

I am one of those people who have spent MUCH (much, much) more for their
touring bike.  The reason?  I am 6'4", and could not get
a stock touring bike that fit my body;  thus, I was forced to go the
custom-built route.  (That was in 1979;  since then,
a lot of manufacturers have come out with larger frame sizes.)

I don't think you would be at all "off the mark" by purchasing one of
the new breed (god, I hate that phrase) of Japanese touring bikes.
I've read about a lot of them and I am green with envy that people
nowadays can get so much more bike for the money than back when I
was in the market.  Don't allow yourself to overbuy just for the sake
of snob appeal.

On the other hand, there are certain things that one might want in a
touring bike that stock bikes (at least in this price range) don't offer.
Good quality sealed-bearing hubs and bottom brackets, such as Phil Wood 
or Specialized.  In my opinion, any decent crankset will serve the purpose, 
as long as it can be geared low enough.

Some of the Japanese touring bikes come with their own racks.  I'm not
too sure about these - Bicycling magazine did some tests awhile back
that showed that there is a big difference in different rack strengths.
Bruce Gordon racks, naturally, came out on top;  Blackburn made a respectable
showing.  Vetta looked so terrible that I would never trust them. (Imagine
having a rack break while you're swooping down a mountain road?)
But there's a point of diminishing returns - for example, I use Blackburns
because I've never had any problems with them and the Gordons are too
expensive.

Stronger wheels - this includes not only the rims but
what kind of spokes are used.  A high quality freewheel - ever had a freewheel
come apart while you're grinding up a hill on a loaded bike?
These are the "invisible" places where costs can be cut.  You'll never
encounter any problems with these cost-cutting measures until you are 
50 miles from the nearest town with 40-50 pounds of stuff on the bike.
(speaking from experience!!)  For example....

Bear in mind, now, that I weigh 210 pounds.  With full packs, full water
bottles, lunch and dinner, etc.,  I expect that my bike and I weigh at 
least 290 pounds.  5 pounds of wheels are supporting the other 285 pounds!
For this reason, I have Phil Wood hubs, with a tandem (i.e. solid) axle
on the rear;  48 spokes rear, 40 spokes front;  Super Champion 58
28mm rims.  The spokes are DT 14 gauge (twice the cost of any other,
but provably stronger.  Wheelsmith spokes may be as strong;  I've never
seen figures for them).  I never ride tires that are narrower than 1-1/4".
I've broken lesser wheels (in the middle of Idaho, 100 miles from the
nearest bike shop!).  I only use Suntour Winner freewheels (I've broken
a Pro Compe, on that hill I told you about.)  I've broken Huret and Suntour
derailleurs  (in the middle of the Canadian Rockies) - now I 
use a Shimano Deore XT.

Whew!  Sorry if I got a little wordy there, but I have very strong feelings
about the quality of the components I ride.  When it doen't have a functional
advantage, I don't buy it.  But if I see the potential for a true problem,
I'll spend whatever is necessary to make sure it doen't happen!

			Dave Wagner
			University of Washington Comp Sci Department
			wagner@washington.arpa
			{ihnp4,decvax,ucbvax}!uw-beaver!wagner

"The surest thing there is is we are riders,
 And though none too successful at it, guiders,
 Through everything presented, land and tide
 And now the very air, of what we ride."
	- Frost

diego@cca.UUCP (Diego Gonzalez) (03/06/86)

> . . .
> My question: after seeing on this net that many people spend MUCH more
> for a bike, how far off the mark would I be if I found a "stock" bike
> that fit me?  Also, of course any specific comments on those two
> manufacturers would be appreciated.
> 
> Happy rolling!    Stew Lindenberger     AT&T Bell Labs  Murray Hill NJ

I think it's a great idea to look at and purchase your first serious
bike "off the floor."  Not only are the two models that you are
considering from excellent makers (I rode a Miyata Sport) for more than
8 years), but you will also be knowledgeable when and if you decide to
go for a more exotic machine in the future.  My first 10-speed was a
Peugeot UO-8 in 1966.  I owned another one later, and then bought the
Miyata in 1974.  Between '74 and '82, I upgraded numerous items on that
bike including the seat, stem, cranks, brake pads and levers, derailleur
pulleys, and -- the biggest improvement -- a new set of narrow wheels
(yes, I learned about narrow-section high-pressure tires back in 1977
and put them on Mavic Mod Es that I built myself).  If the bike fits, is
acceptable in weight, and meets your present bicycling needs and
interests, you should be confident that it is an appropriate choice.

Once you have ridden it for a period of time, you may decide that your
interest is more serious than you initially thought and that you are
ready for a more sophisticated bike.  Modern frames generally accept
interchangeable parts, so you can upgrade for quite some time to come
without exceeding the potential of a well-made frame.  My suggestion is
that you go ahead with the bike purchase, make sure that the dealer fits
it properly to your body size, and get out on the road.  That's where
the fun is!  Good luck and good riding.