kmcvay@oneb.UUCP (Ken McVay) (02/23/90)
I noted the creation of this area with interest, and immediately wondered what sort of guidelines exist with regard to its use. One of my clients is a personnel agency, and he would like to be able to post job openings in appropriate newsgroups. Because he operates a commercial employment service, I have suggested that he refrain from posting here until I can clarify the rules. If the purpose of the group is to provide employment opportunities for users, then his postings (one was for an RPG Programmer, as I recall) would be of value. I don't want to get into the ageless song and dance about "commercializing" UseNet, but I'd like to hear what everyone thinks about opening this area to employment agencies right across Canada. -- 1B Systems Management Ltd. | 4B - 2520 Bowen Road, Nanaimo, B.C. V9T 3L3 Kenneth McVay | Voice: 604-758-7414 | Envoy: ken.mcvay | RCSA: 89:681/1 ------> uunet!van-bc!oneb!kmcvay |
morrison@cs.ubc.ca (Rick Morrison) (02/25/90)
In article <1960@oneb.UUCP> kmcvay@oneb.UUCP (Ken McVay) writes: > ... I don't want to get into the ageless song and dance >about "commercializing" UseNet, but I'd like to hear what everyone >thinks about opening this area to employment agencies right across Canada. I don't think commercializing UseNet should be an issue in this case. Presumably this news group is for people who are interested in hearing about job opportunities (esp. in Canada). I don't see what difference it makes where the postings come from. It's not as if there's too much traffic. Let a thousand head hunters bloom. I imagine the postings for RPG programmers will dry up soon enough. ------------------- Rick Morrison | {alberta,uw-beaver,uunet}!ubc-cs!morrison Dept. of Computer Science| morrison@cs.ubc.ca Univ. of British Columbia| morrison%ubc.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa Vancouver, B.C. V6T 1W5 | morrison@ubc.csnet (ubc-csgrads=128.189.97.20) (604) 228-5010
wain@seac.UUCP (Wain Dobson) (02/25/90)
In article <1960@oneb.UUCP> kmcvay@oneb.UUCP (Ken McVay) writes: >I noted the creation of this area with interest, and immediately >wondered what sort of guidelines exist with regard to its use. > >One of my clients is a personnel agency, and he would like to be >able to post job openings in appropriate newsgroups. Because he operates >a commercial employment service, I have suggested that he refrain from >posting here until I can clarify the rules. > Tell your cient to start his own net. Glad you saw fit to suggest that the agency restrain itself. Public funds and the good will of alot of people keep the net functional. The net is not intended as a vehicle for commercial organizations either to gain competitive advantage or to reduce operating costs. Even the mere suggestion of job postings posted by a commercial personnel agency running around "appropriate groups" is enough to .... The philosophy of the net is pretty apparent in the monthly postings in the 'news' groups. Or, to look at things in a slightly different manner: Why should I provide the dollars for machinery and the time to keep a node functioning while the personnel agency benefits from my dollars and my time. Or, from another perspective, is the personnel agency willing to pay me a fee for distributing and carrying the adds? What about the thousands of other machines that would be distributing and carrying the adds? -- Wain Dobson, Vancouver, B.C. ...!{uunet,ubc-cs}!van-bc!seac!wain
a354leas@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (02/25/90)
In article <5591@seac.UUCP> wain@seac.UUCP (Wain Dobson) writes: >In article <1960@oneb.UUCP> kmcvay@oneb.UUCP (Ken McVay) writes: >>I noted the creation of this area with interest, and immediately >>wondered what sort of guidelines exist with regard to its use. >> >>One of my clients is a personnel agency, and he would like to be >>able to post job openings in appropriate newsgroups. Because he operates >>a commercial employment service, I have suggested that he refrain from >>posting here until I can clarify the rules. >> >Tell your cient to start his own net [...much deleted...] > ... Why should I provide the dollars for machinery and the time >to keep a node functioning while the personnel agency benefits >from my dollars and my time. Consider a company that is not an employment agency. If this company posts a job opening to the net, are the applicatants the ONLY people to benefit from such a posting?! Of course not. The company benefits if they find the right person, and the right person gets the job he was looking for. UseNet is about getting ideas and information to people. Specifically people who use computers. I can see nothing more absurd than stopping employment agencies from posting job openings, and letting other companies continue. Especially when one considers the frequency with which most users of the net change jobs. >-- >Wain Dobson, Vancouver, B.C. > ...!{uunet,ubc-cs}!van-bc!seac!wain -- Simon Lea -- University of Toronto, Department of Computer Science InterNet, BITNET, CSnet, NetNorth, CDNNET, EARN: lea@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca
lyndon@cs.AthabascaU.CA (Lyndon Nerenberg) (02/26/90)
In article <5591@seac.UUCP> wain@seac.UUCP (Wain Dobson) writes: >The philosophy of the net is pretty apparent in the monthly postings >in the 'news' groups. The postings in news.* reflect the position of mainstream usenet (ie the "gang of seven" top levels of the group tree). I don't necessarily consider can.* part of that conglomeration. Although arguments can be made about the commercial nature of these postings, I think the benefits outweigh the negative aspects. I suggest we try it on a trial basis for a month and poll the readership at that time about continuing the "service" or creating a subgroup that sites could choose not to carry if they so desire. -- Lyndon Nerenberg VE6BBM / Computing Services / Athabasca University {alberta,decwrl}!atha!lyndon || lyndon@cs.AthabascaU.CA UREP: Peru in disguise?
pedersen@philmtl.philips.ca (Paul Pedersen) (02/27/90)
In article <1717@aurora.AthabascaU.CA> lyndon@cs.AthabascaU.CA (Lyndon Nerenberg) writes: >Although arguments can be made about the commercial nature of these >postings, I think the benefits outweigh the negative aspects. I >suggest we try it on a trial basis for a month and poll the readership >at that time about continuing the "service" or creating a subgroup >that sites could choose not to carry if they so desire. Pardon if I've missed similar prior discussion, but why not poll the readership *before* anything is done ? Is this discussion such a poll ? If yes, I vote NO. Paul
mike@ists.ists.ca (Mike Clarkson) (02/28/90)
In article <6922@ubc-cs.UUCP> morrison@cs.ubc.ca (Rick Morrison) writes: >I don't think commercializing UseNet should be an issue in this case. >Presumably this news group is for people who are interested in hearing >about job opportunities (esp. in Canada). I don't see what difference >it makes where the postings come from. It's not as if there's too much >traffic. Let a thousand head hunters bloom. I imagine the postings for >RPG programmers will dry up soon enough. (RPG :-) I got a very lucrative job through a head-hunter posting on ont.jobs when I was graduating. I was looking for a job and *.jobs was a valuable resource; the headhunter helped me very significantly not only in finding the job, but in winning the position. From what I've seen over the net in the last few years, I expect that the postings will be both useful and self-policing. This is a very critical audience, and any outfit that gets too far out of line will have the NetWrath brought down on it soon enough. I have yet to see that happen as a result of any headhunter postings yet. As Rick says, the RPG requests will dry up pretty fast. Mike. PS: Unix is a rapdily expanding market, and Unix programmers are a scarce resource. A flourishing job market for Unix progammers helps us all, especially by attracting new students into learning it. The net can help here too. -- Mike Clarkson mike@ists.ists.ca Institute for Space and Terrestrial Science uunet!attcan!ists!mike York University, North York, Ontario, FORTRAN - just say no. CANADA M3J 1P3 +1 (416) 736-5611
mike@ists.ists.ca (Mike Clarkson) (02/28/90)
In article <5591@seac.UUCP> wain@seac.UUCP (Wain Dobson) writes: >Tell your cient to start his own net. Glad you saw fit to suggest that >the agency restrain itself. Public funds and the good will of alot of people >keep the net functional. Public Funds ?!? From where? The net is kept functional by major sites (like ours) who pay the hefty phone and internet charges. We do this because it is a valuable resource to our members, including those who have or are seeking jobs. >The net is not intended as a vehicle for >commercial organizations either to gain competitive advantage or >to reduce operating costs. Nonsense. The desire to reduce operating costs is a major reason for having usenet available to our systems programmers and researchers. Reinventing wheels is expensive. >Even the mere suggestion of job postings >posted by a commercial personnel agency running around "appropriate groups" >is enough to .... bring gentle applause from those who can use the information, and understand the benefits to us all from the service. That's why the "appropriate groups" were created. Enuf said. Mike. -- Mike Clarkson mike@ists.ists.ca Institute for Space and Terrestrial Science uunet!attcan!ists!mike York University, North York, Ontario, FORTRAN - just say no. CANADA M3J 1P3 +1 (416) 736-5611
belkin@teecs.UUCP (Hershel Belkin) (03/01/90)
I would agree that it shouldn't matter where the postings come from, but I would personally like to know if a posting is from a headhunter or directly from the source of the position. Although it could be argued that the poster's address would indicate that, there are an increasing number of headhunters operating as extremely small organizations (try "one man show" :-) and it is likely that they would not have a unique uucp node, but rather would get access to usenet from some public-access system, etc. I would like to suggest that headhunters should be "required" to identify their posting as "AGENCY", either in the title, or on the signature line. Obviously this can't be enforced, but if it becomes part of the group's "netiquette", then those who don't do it.... well.. :-) -- +-----------------------------------------------+-------------------------+ | Hershel Belkin hp9000/825(HP-UX)| UUCP: teecs!belkin | | Test Equipment Engineering Computing Services | Phone: 416 246-2647 | | Litton Systems Canada Limited (Toronto) | FAX: 416 246-5233 | +-----------------------------------------------+-------------------------+