wmartin@brl-tgr.ARPA (Will Martin ) (12/17/85)
Have other people doing electronic repair or construction work noticed that it seems to be difficult to find plain ordinary rosin flux by itself these days? You can find rosin-core solder everywhere, and it appears that most hardware stores have acid flux in bottles or some kind of containers, but not rosin flux. Even Radio Shack has various kinds of electronic chemicals, and rosin-core solder, but no rosin flux (at least in the catalog). Having straight flux available makes tinning wires or soldering to chassis or sheet metal (like circuit-section shields) easier, so I would think that it should be available to hobbyists, but it appears to be hard to find. Places like Allied have it in their catalogs in quart quantities, but a hobbyist would be better off with a squeeze bottle containing 6 oz or so. Anyone know why it doesn't seem to be available on the consumer market? Will Martin UUCP/USENET: seismo!brl-bmd!wmartin or ARPA/MILNET: wmartin@almsa-1.ARPA
don@umd5.UUCP (12/18/85)
> > Have other people doing electronic repair or construction work noticed > that it seems to be difficult to find plain ordinary rosin flux by > itself these days? > . > . > Having straight flux available makes tinning wires or > soldering to chassis or sheet metal (like circuit-section shields) > easier, so I would think that it should be available to hobbyists, but > it appears to be hard to find. Places like Allied have it in their > catalogs in quart quantities, but a hobbyist would be better off with a > squeeze bottle containing 6 oz or so. Anyone know why it doesn't seem to > be available on the consumer market? > > Will Martin > Generally (the electronics firm I work for included), the flux is purchased a gallon at a time. True, each person needs no more than a little bit at any one time, so as many small bottle/dispensers are purchased as required. Use an old baby-food jar, or similar small wide-mouth jar if you don't wish to get fancy. Besides, flux keeps just about forever, and it isn't all THAT expen$ive is it? An "acid" brush works well for applying flux to a large area. Those cheap single ended wooden "Q-Tips" work well for small areas when you dip the wooden end into your flux dispenser. To use for tinning your soldering iron, let the flux solvent evaporate, and put a flux "chip" on your tip cleaning sponge. The average consumer will just keep feeding his rosin-core solder onto the joint until it "wets" -- not pretty, nor MIL-SPEC, but effective. -- --==---==---==-- "What happened ?" "It seems the occipital area of my head impacted with the arm of the chair." "No, I mean, what happened to us ?" "That has yet to be surmised." ARPA: umd5!don@maryland.ARPA, don%umd5@umd2.ARPA BITNET: don%umd5@umd2 UUCP: ..!{ seismo!umcp-cs, ihnp4!rlgvax }!cvl!umd5!don
larry@kitty.UUCP (Larry Lippman) (12/21/85)
> Have other people doing electronic repair or construction work noticed > that it seems to be difficult to find plain ordinary rosin flux by > itself these days? ... > Anyone know why it doesn't seem to be available on the consumer market? Because the market demand is extremely low. If you really insist upon having rosin flux, you might wish to consider the small containers of rosin flux which are sold for plumbing use. === Larry Lippman @ Recognition Research Corp., Clarence, New York === === UUCP {decvax,dual,rocksanne,rocksvax,watmath}!sunybcs!kitty!larry === === VOICE 716/741-9185 {rice,shell}!baylor!/ === === FAX 716/741-9635 {AT&T 3510D} ihnp4!/ === === === === "Have you hugged your cat today?" ===
dr@ski.UUCP (David Robins) (12/31/85)
> Because the market demand is extremely low. If you really insist upon > having rosin flux, you might wish to consider the small containers of rosin > flux which are sold for plumbing use. I don't know where this fellow shops, but as far as I know, plumbers ALWAYS use acid fluxes. These include liquids or pastes with zinc chloride as the active component- it yields hydrochloric acid. Zn(Cl)2 + 2*H2O <---> Zn(OH)2 + 2*HCl weak strong base acid I have NEVER seen rosin flux in plumbing stores. If you use acid flux on your electronic circuits, you can kiss them goodbye. -- ==================================================================== David Robins, M.D. Smith-Kettlewell Institute of Visual Sciences 2232 Webster St; San Francisco CA 94115 415/561-1705 {ihnp4,qantel,dual}!ptsfa!ski!dr The opinions expressed herein do not reflect the opinion of the Institute!
larry@kitty.UUCP (Larry Lippman) (01/02/86)
> > Because the market demand is extremely low. If you really insist upon > > having rosin flux, you might wish to consider the small containers of rosin > > flux which are sold for plumbing use. > > I don't know where this fellow shops, but as far as I know, plumbers ALWAYS > use acid fluxes. These include liquids or pastes with zinc chloride as the > active component- it yields hydrochloric acid. I was ONLY referring to a product labeled as: ``Rosin Flux''. This does NOT include ``Soldering Paste'' - which is in fact a mixture of rosin and zinc chloride. I presume that anyone wishing to buy rosin flux knows how to read! Two retail repackagers of solders and fluxes for hobby and home repair use are Oatey and Plumbcraft; the materials which the above companies repackage include solders and fluxes for electrical and other use. > I have NEVER seen rosin flux in plumbing stores. Pure rosin flux is often used in refrigeration work for sweat soldering of small diameter copper tubing and fittings, where the presence of excess acid flux on the interior of the fitting can be particularly harmful. > If you use acid flux on your electronic circuits, you can kiss them goodbye. It might surprise you to learn that the above generalization is WRONG! I would suggest that you look at a catalog from one of the major electronic solder manufacturers - like Kester, Ersin, or Gardiner. You will discover that MANY rosin fluxes are in fact ``activated'' fluxes and contain chemicals (such as chlorides) which are in fact ACID in nature. I quote from the description of two Kester products: Kester 2400 - "An organic, chloride-type, very stable flux for reflow soldering on circuit boards..." Kester 2410 - "An organic acid flux, free from choride, for reflow soldering on on circuit boards..." Many rosin-core solders contain MORE THAN just rosin as the flux. For example, a solder sold exclusively for electronic use such as Ersin Standard Alloy Multicore (tm) solder is available in three grades: "R" - which is pure rosin core; "RA" and "RMA" which contain an acid type activator. Rosin by itself will not flux satisfactorily when certain types of oxidation are present on the connection surfaces; as a result, further chemical additives are required. Good and proper soldering practice - whether in production environments or in casual hand soldering - dictates the REMOVAL OF EXCESS FLUX remaining after the soldering operation is complete. There are a variety of flux removers on the market, and this is what they are for! In a production environment, soldered circuit boards have excess flux removed through a washing or vapor cleaning operation; in a hand solderimg operation, excess flux can be removed using a small brush dipped in flux remover. Incidently, a safe and generally effective flux remover is iso-propyl alcohol - which can be obtained at low cost from a hardware store or pharmacy (don't get rubbing alcohol, however!). As long as proper removal of excess flux is carried out, then the use of fluxes containing acid is not at all contraindicated for electronic use. IMPORTANT NOTE: I am NOT advocating the indiscriminate use of acid fluxes (like sold for plumbing use) on electronic circuits! I am merely establishing the point that acid fluxes ARE used on electronic equipment under certain conditions. ==> Larry Lippman @ Recognition Research Corp., Clarence, New York <== ==> UUCP {decvax|dual|rocksanne|rocksvax|watmath}!sunybcs!kitty!larry <== ==> VOICE 716/741-9185 {rice|shell}!baylor!/ <== ==> FAX 716/741-9635 {G1, G2, G3 modes} duke!ethos!/ <== ==> burl!gladys!/ <== ==> "Have you hugged your cat today?" ihnp4!/ <==
roy@phri.UUCP (Roy Smith) (01/03/86)
> Incidently, a safe and generally effective flux remover is iso-propyl > alcohol - which can be obtained at low cost from a hardware store or > pharmacy (don't get rubbing alcohol, however!). > ==> Larry Lippman Plain-old rubbing alcohol *is* isopropyl alcohol (70%). Does the 30% water cause any problems? Once it evaporates I wouldn't think it would make much difference. -- Roy Smith <allegra!phri!roy> System Administrator, Public Health Research Institute 455 First Avenue, New York, NY 10016
larry@kitty.UUCP (Larry Lippman) (01/04/86)
> I don't know where this fellow shops, but as far as I know, plumbers ALWAYS > use acid fluxes. These include liquids or pastes with zinc chloride as the > active component- it yields hydrochloric acid. > > Zn(Cl)2 + 2*H2O <---> Zn(OH)2 + 2*HCl > weak strong > base acid > David Robins, M.D. The above equation is NOT the hydrolysis reaction for zinc chloride, and is furthermore not reversible as you have implied. Zinc hydroxide is amphoteric, virtually insoluble in water, reacts only with STRONG HCl to form zinc chloride, and is NOT the hydrolysis product of zinc chloride. The actual reaction is: Zn(Cl)2 + H2O <---> ZnO + 2(HCl) The above reaction proceeds to the right until equilibrium is achieved, resulting in a pH of around 4.0 in aqueous solution, along with a significant concentration of zinc oxide being present in solution. A pH of 4.0 is only weakly acidic. Zinc chloride therefore does not remain as a pure solute in aqueous solution. Lest you doubt my word on the hydrolysis of zinc chloride, you may check it out in the Merck Index 9th Ed. ==> Larry Lippman @ Recognition Research Corp., Clarence, New York <== ==> UUCP {decvax|dual|rocksanne|rocksvax|watmath}!sunybcs!kitty!larry <== ==> VOICE 716/741-9185 {rice|shell}!baylor!/ <== ==> FAX 716/741-9635 {G1, G2, G3 modes} duke!ethos!/ <== ==> burl!gladys!/ <== ==> "Have you hugged your cat today?" ihnp4!/ <==
larry@kitty.UUCP (Larry Lippman) (01/06/86)
> > Incidently, a safe and generally effective flux remover is iso-propyl > > alcohol - which can be obtained at low cost from a hardware store or > > pharmacy (don't get rubbing alcohol, however!). > > ==> Larry Lippman > > Plain-old rubbing alcohol *is* isopropyl alcohol (70%). Does the > 30% water cause any problems? Once it evaporates I wouldn't think it would > make much difference. There are two problems with using rubbing alcohol for this application: (1) the water dilution will seriously affect the efficicy of the iso-propyl alcohol as a solvent; (2) some brands of rubbing alcohol contain witch hazel extract along other undesireable items which may leave impurities on the solder joint and surrounding circuitry. ==> Larry Lippman @ Recognition Research Corp., Clarence, New York <== ==> UUCP {decvax|dual|rocksanne|rocksvax|watmath}!sunybcs!kitty!larry <== ==> VOICE 716/741-9185 {rice|shell}!baylor!/ <== ==> FAX 716/741-9635 {G1, G2, G3 modes} duke!ethos!/ <== ==> burl!gladys!/ <== ==> "Have you hugged your cat today?" ihnp4!/ <==
crs@lanl.ARPA (01/06/86)
> Plain-old rubbing alcohol *is* isopropyl alcohol (70%). Does the > 30% water cause any problems? Once it evaporates I wouldn't think it would > make much difference. Does the perfume that is put in rubbing alcohol cause any problems? I seem to recall having tried rubbing alcohol with less effectiveness than USP isopropyl -- perhaps the dilution. -- The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of my employer, the government or your favorite deity. Charlie Sorsby ...!{cmcl2,ihnp4,...}!lanl!crs crs@lanl.arpa
jsdy@hadron.UUCP (Joseph S. D. Yao) (01/07/86)
In article <36063@lanl.ARPA> crs@lanl.ARPA writes: >> Plain-old rubbing alcohol *is* isopropyl alcohol (70%). Does the >> 30% water cause any problems? >Does the perfume that is put in rubbing alcohol cause any problems? P e r f u m e ? ? ? Where do they put that in rubbing alcohol??? I really just wanted to note that the cost of isoprpanol goes up asymptotically with its purity after ca. 98%, which is what you're likely to find at your druggist's. So, don't go looking for pure (100%) isopropanol. -- Joe Yao hadron!jsdy@seismo.{CSS.GOV,ARPA,UUCP}