san@cositex.UUCP (Steve Sanderson) (05/23/85)
[blank line]
This is an inquiry to find out what systems/environments
are available to run smalltalk. I'd like to find out what
software/hardware I'd need to have a nice smalltalk system.
Since this is a personal request, systems costing mega-bucks
are out of the question, though no less interesting...
For instance, is there a smalltalk environment available for
a MacIntosh or Lisa/MacXL, Sun... any envsisioned for the
AT&T UNIX PC? etc...
Thanks for any information
Steve
--
Steve Sanderson, COSI Texas
4412 Spicewood Springs, Suite 801 Austin, Texas 78759
UUCP: {ihnp4, seismo, ctvax}!ut-sally!cositex!san, san@cositex.UUCP
AT&T: (512) 345-2780steve@lpi3230.UUCP (Steve Burbeck) (06/04/85)
> This is an inquiry to find out what systems/environments > are available to run smalltalk. I'd like to find out what > software/hardware I'd need to have a nice smalltalk system. > Since this is a personal request, systems costing mega-bucks > are out of the question, though no less interesting... > For instance, is there a smalltalk environment available for > a MacIntosh or Lisa/MacXL, Sun... any envisioned for the > AT&T UNIX PC? etc... If you mean the true complete Smalltalk-80 environment from Xerox, the only machine available right now from anyone other than Xerox is the Tektronix 4404 AI machine for $15-$20K. The Apple Mac XL (nee Lisa), which is discontinued but still available, has an older, somewhat incompatible smalltalk environment. Incompatibility has obvious disadvantages, but one advantage is that Apple can sell it for whatever it wishes without royalties to Xerox. That is why it is available for only $45, despite the fact that Xerox gets $150 royalty on each system containing the true Smalltalk-80 virtual image which puts a floor on prices for the "real thing." Another, MUCH more incompatible system, called Methods is available for IBM PC's. In this case the smalltalk language syntax is 99% compatible, but the environment is missing much of what smalltalk is known for: e.g., bitmapped graphics, multiple fonts, mouse interaction, etc. Using smalltalk without a mouse is awkward and slow. Moreover, some of what is available is not compatible with either the Apple version or Xerox's own. On the plus side, it requires only a PC with 512k -- no mouse, no graphics, no hard disk. It costs about $275 (see ad in latest Byte). In the not too distant future a clean, true, 100% compatible, Smalltalk-80 virtual machine for the IBM PC/AT will be available (from softsmarts, 4 Skyline Drive, Woodside, CA 94062). We (LPI) will begin beta testing of it in a week or so. Right now it has bugs, but that's what testing is for. It requires a PC/AT with lots of extra memory (ours has 1.64 meg), a Mouse Systems three button mouse, an IBM Extended Graphics Adaptor (EGA) controller, and either a monochrome monitor or the Extended Color Monitor. You could put the machine together for less than $6K if you try hard enough. A general difficulty is that, at present, Xerox allows sublicensing of its virtual image only if it is delivered together with hardware (a' la Tektronix). Until this changes one must get the smalltalk virtual machine from softsmarts and the virtual image from Xerox. If you are an educational institution (as we are), that is a good deal (the Xerox license only costs about $400 for the entire institution no matter how many machines are to use it!). But for anyone else it is $20K (although that also is for multiple machines so large corporations would not find it too expensive). For now, individuals without the backing of an educational institution or a corporation which can afford the $20K are out of luck. Lets all hope our luck changes soon. Steve Burbeck Linus Pauling Institute 440 Page Mill Road Palo Alto, CA 94306 (415) 327-4064 Smalltalk-80 is a trademark of Xerox Corp
mark@tove.UUCP (Mark Weiser) (06/10/85)
In article <156@lpi3230.UUCP> steve@lpi3230.UUCP (Steve Burbeck) writes: > >A general difficulty is that, at present, Xerox allows sublicensing of its >virtual image only if it is delivered together with hardware (a' la Tektronix). There is also the Sun smalltalk available from Berkeley. Berkeley also delivers the Xerox smalltalk-80 virtual image with the Berkeley code, so they must have some kind of exception to the above sublicensing restriction. -mark -- Spoken: Mark Weiser ARPA: mark@maryland Phone: +1-301-454-7817 CSNet: mark@umcp-cs UUCP: {seismo,allegra}!umcp-cs!mark USPS: Computer Science Dept., University of Maryland, College Park, MD 20742