[net.lang.st80] Re Smalltalk machines

steve@lpi3230.UUCP (Steve Burbeck) (02/22/86)

In reply to two recent postings; first one by john malleo-roach:

>I am trying to compile a list of dedicated Smalltalk environments which
>are available to users.  By 'dedicated' I mean the equivalent of what
>one expects when they acquire a Xerox or Symbolics lisp machine.  The
>ones that I am aware of are:
>1) A dolphin or dorado from Xerox running Smalltalk-80 v2
>2) a tektronix 4400 family machine
>3) a sun running BS II
>4) a Mac/Mac XL/Mac+ running Smalltalk-80 v1
>5) Possibly Methods from Digitial Research (?)
>6) Some new IBM AT product coming out. (?)
.
.
>john malleo-roach

and a second from Jonathan Shopiro:

>There is an advert on the inside cover of this month's CACM for some
>ST-80 that runs on IBM PC-AT.  I forget the details, but I intend to
>get it for my ATT PC 6300+ (When I get my PC 6300+).
.
.
>Also ST is more fun than anything I've ever tried.

The new ST-80 that runs on an IBM PC/AT is from Softsmarts.

First, I am involved with Softsmarts, as well as the Linus Pauling Institute
(LPI).  In my role at LPI, I have been beta testing the PC/AT version for the
last 6 months.  So take what I say with the appropriate grain of salt :-)

The PC/AT version is full Smalltalk-80 v2.  It benchmarks in the Xerox PARC
benchmark set at better than 16% of a Dorado.  That is faster than the Dolphin,
the Sun BS-II, and the Mac.  At present it has not been run on any machine
but a real PC/AT with EGA graphics controller, a mouse systems 3 button mouse,
and at least 1.6 meg of real memory.  The benchmarks are with an 8MHz crystal.
Anyone forced to run theirs at 6MHz will see 25% slower performance.

It should run on many AT compatibles (it REALLY uses 80286 protected mode, so
we'll see how "compatible" they are).  Unfortunately, the ATT PC 6300+ has its
own notion of a graphics controller which is not strictly compatible with the
EGA.  So, for now Jonathan, no soap :-).  By the time you actually get your
6300+ things may be different.

Those are the facts, now for some opinion.  Methods (by Digitalk, not Digital
Research), is even faster than true Smalltalk-80 on the AT.  I have had
Methods for a year or so now.  But its speed is traded for functionality.  It
is at most a very pale imitation of the full Smalltalk-80 environment.  And,
although there have been rumors of a true bitmapped version of it, all I have
seen is the character oriented version.  But if ALL you are interested in is
true object oriented programming, Methods is for you (and it's cheap!).
The Mac version is the next best, if you are price conscious, since it is
considerably cheaper than a PC/AT.  It is version 1, rather than version 2,
so it is missing some functionality, but on the whole is a nice little system.
Without at least 1Mbyte, it is not useful for anything but teaching, though.
And, if you are not price conscious, the Tektronics 440x is really nice.
The 4404 is about twice the speed of the PC/AT (at three times the cost).
The 4405 and 4406 are about twice again the speed.  I've played a bit with
a 4406, and would have a dozen of them if LPI could afford them.  Not too
surprisingly, however, I think the PC/AT is the best bet for most people.
I have programmed a fairly large application for molecular biology on it,
and a rather large expert system tool has been run on it as well.  Its speed
and power are sufficient for us until we strike it rich someday and can
afford a 4406.  And, yes, Smalltalk-80 is more fun than anything I have
ever tried too.
					Steve Burbeck
					Linus Pauling Institute
					440 Page Mill Road
					Palo Alto, CA 94306
					(415)327-4064