thompso@utecfc.UUCP (Mark Thompson) (08/02/84)
Hurray for Jim Robinson. It is too bad more Canadians don't possess his
wisdom. I too get sick when I hear our economic problems get blamed on
the United States. I read recently that our deficit is 7.7% of the GNP
while the States' is only 5% of theirs. The U.S. happens to pay the lions
share of western defence. What's the Liberal's excuse? It certainly isn't
defence spending. Quite frankly those who praise Trudeau must be on drugs.
The man should be shot for his wreakage of the economy. Social programs
are all fine and dandy but they must be payed for somehow. Pierre doesn't
have to worry about it. He's retiring to a half-million dollar mansion on
a fat government pension. So much for all his crap about sharing the wealth.
It gets shared alright, among the Liberal friends of Mr. Trudeau. Actually
they aren't really Liberals anyway, just NDP'ers in disguise. Anyway it is
too bad that those who voted for the Liberals over the last 20 years don't
receive a bill for their insight. The debt is about $8,000 per Canadian so that
should work out to about $18,000 or so per Liberal.
The future for Canada is not promising. As our population ages the cost of
supporting an increasing senior population will fall upon a decreasing working
population. High technology which may help alleviate this burden, has been
sadly neglected by the Liberals under Trudeau. Our large federal deficit will
be tough to cut. Goodies given out by Trudeau have come to be expected
and taking these away will be politically difficult for future leaders.
Hopefully (I hold my breath) Canadians will have the sense to let the
Conservatives have a true chance. We need to clear out all the crud in Ottawa
that Trudeau has deposited over the last two decades. Actually I feel sorry for
Mr. Turner. I believe he is a capable man but unfortunately he is surrounded
by too much refuse that has drifted from the NDP into the Liberal party. I
like the man because he told Pierre where to go(why do you think he left
politics 9 years ago?).
Anyway what is the prospect of disposing of the Liberal incompetents?
I wish it was better. Unfortunately ethnics and French-Canadians vote too.
Don't get me wrong I don't dislike these people but it is too bad their
political foresight doesn't extend beyond the end of their noses(my apologies
to the few who actually vote conservative). Ask them why they voted Liberal
last time. Becoz Meester Trudeau ees a nice man. Where the hell are they coming
from? It is too bad that the right to vote is not earned by passing some sort
of awareness test. As it stands now the political parties have to address
themselves to the lowest common denominator who can be easily duped by the
blatant lies of the Liberals(remember wage and price controls and 18 cents a
gallon!).
One other thing that irks me. The medicare program. It is not bad but what
is wrong with user fees to discourage hypochondriac behavior? For the
truly sick these fees should be waved but those who injure themselves
through acts of their choice should pay their own bills. I am refering to
people who get injured while drunk(these people should also pay the full
medical bills for those they injure) and injuries incurred as a result of
the pursuit of dangerous activities. I fell into this last category (sports
injury) last year and I don't see why the public should pay the bills. Also
the premiums should be based on controllable personal habits. Smokers should
be nailed as well as those who let themselves get out of condition(people
with hard to control weight problems excluded).
I am sure there will be feed back on this article but if there are any
Liberals who intend to get on my case please answer one question first:
WHO IS GOING TO PAY THAT $180 BILLION DEBT?
Mark Thompson
(I have the personal pleasure of
voting against Jim Coutts)dmmartindale@watcgl.UUCP (Dave Martindale) (08/02/84)
But what makes you think that the Conservatives will reduce the deficit? Mulroney seems to be at least as good at making expensive election promises as Turner. Now, someone proposed having a minimum level of income tax, so that people couldn't reduce their tax below that minimum level by using shelters and loopholes. That would help reduce the deficit, wouldn't it? But that was proposed by the NDP, so it can't be a good idea, can it? I don't particularly wish to malign the Conservatives or support either of the other parties here. I just want to point out that the world is not black and white. Your article was so rabidly anti-Liberal and pro-Conservative as to make it seem silly. Dave Martindale
mnh@utcsrgv.UUCP (Mark N. Hume) (08/02/84)
I'm so glad Mr Thompson decided to *tell* us all how to vote. Saves us all the bother of looking at all those complicated issues upon which we base our choice. Vote Conservative (oh sorry, Progressive Conservative , the ultimate contradiction)! What a vulgar characterization of ethnic and French Canadian voters! As to the test to see whether we are "smart" or "aware" enough to vote, I think Mr Thompson has missed the point of the Universal Franchise! It is not too long ago that Women were considered not aware enough, or not capable of making an intelligent choice, and thus were denied the vote. How about people who haven't gone to university, or high school for that matter? Shall we exclude them from our *club* of voters? As to the deficit, from which his venom pours, I suppose that he fully supports the $20 Billion cost of the Conservative election promises. As for US defense spending. I read the other day that the cost of *one* MX missile would equal the cost of raising *every* US single mother family above the poverty line. I could go on, and on about the so called US defense spending. As for the reason the Liberals were elected last time, perhaps Mr Thompson would consider the statement of The Rt. Hon. Joe Clark, "We are going to govern as if we had a majority". Talk about arrogance! That's really treating parliament with the dignity and respect it deserves. And finally, user fees. I think Mr Thompson does not grasp the difference between extra billing and user fees. User fees are charged by the hospitals, extra billing is done by the doctors. I suppose he thinks that all those hypochondriacs (sp?) are admitting themselves into hospital. And I can't believe that a large percentage of those being charged user fees or being extra billed are hypochondriacs. Maybe I'm expecting too much. I thought that users of this news group would present opinions and observations and back them up with reasoned arguments, not with rhetoric from one party leader or another. Oh, well.
csc@watmath.UUCP (Computer Sci Club) (08/02/84)
A minimum tax on income over 50,000 is a good idea, and I hope that
both Liberals and Conservatives also adopt this policy. (The Conservatives
have been playing around with similar ideas but have said nothing
definite (surprise!!)). However this measure would raise at most about
$200 million, and this is not going to make much of a dent in a $30 billion
deficit. Also the NDP does not plan to use the money to reduce the
deficit.
In fact the three major parties have given lip service and nothing more
to the idea of reducing the deficit. This is probably a good idea from
a political standpoint; we know what happened to the last party that made
even a mild effort to reduce the deficit. Don't blame the politicians
for wanting to get elected. We are getting the government we deserve!
William Hughesian@utcsstat.UUCP (Ian F. Darwin) (08/03/84)
Maybe I'm expecting too much. I thought that users of this
news group would present opinions and observations and
back them up with reasoned arguments....
Surely you jest. Reason may not tread where politics rushes in,
for politics is the realm of the conniving (not reasoning)
grab for power over one's fellow man.
--
Ian Darwin, Toronto
{ihnp4|decvax}!utcsstat!ianhaapanen@watdcsu.UUCP (Tom Haapanen [DCS]) (08/03/84)
> As to the deficit, from which his venom pours, I suppose that he fully > supports the $20 Billion cost of the Conservative election promises. Aren't the Liberals promising just about the same things as the PCs? Will they possibly get a quantity discount? > As for the reason the Liberals were elected last time, perhaps Mr Thompson > would consider the statement of The Rt. Hon. Joe Clark, "We are going to > govern as if we had a majority". Talk about arrogance! That's really > treating parliament with the dignity and respect it deserves. How did this affect the following election? I can't see it having much impact on the public's voting behaviour. Tom Haapanen {allegra,decvax,ihnp4}!watmath!watdcsu!haapanen
laura@utzoo.UUCP (Laura Creighton) (08/04/84)
We are not ``getting the government we deserve''. Jim Davidson described democracy as ``that form of government where everybody gets what the majority deserves''. Even that is not accurate, however. All the talk about ``changing the system'' is precisely that -- just talk -- because when you look at today's political platforms you discover this little mentioned truth ... THEY'RE ALL THE SAME! And to vote ``against Coutts'' or against anyone, for that matter, it to cast a vote for the same system that produces the same interchangeable candidates -- all lying their way into power by promising to satisfy the short term expedient wishes of as many warm bodies as they can get to the polls. Laura Creighton utzoo!laura
martin@auvax.UUCP (Don Martin) (08/14/84)
Geez, its getting kinda hot in this news group. Thought I'd better put in my two cents worth before experiencing terminal meltdown. Unfortunately because of our archaic (sp?) methods of determining when the polls close, us Westerners don't really have any say in the government unless of course Quebec and Ontario can't make up their mind who they want to govern. All too often, we can only tune into the news and find out who the government will be prior to any of our votes being counted. HOWEVER, I'll still vote against Trudeau and his fanny-patting replacement simply because the Liberals have had one hell of a long time in power and quite simply have screwed it up. I don't know if the PC, NDP, Rino, SC, Communists etc. can do any better but its time to find out. A lot of PC votes will hopefully install a majortiy government who will have 4 (or 5) years to try to get the country turned around while an NDP or other vote will put us in the position of again having a minority government that can't implement a lot of their plans. In either case they sure are starting in a deep, (Liberal prepared) hole. Hey, this feels almost as good as net.flame. Don Martin (auvax!martin) Athabasca University (don't ask where)