[can.politics] Hiroshima and Nagasaki

clarke@utcsri.UUCP (Jim Clarke) (07/22/85)

In article <1278@utcsri.UUCP> hogg@utcsri.UUCP (John Hogg) writes:
>In article <307@looking.UUCP> brad@looking.UUCP (Brad Templeton) writes:
>>Nuking cities is something that was done once, strictly for dramatic effect,
>>to end the second world war.  I don't think it's on people's minds today
>>as a direct end.
>
>   					     ...  The numbers killed, using
>any reasonable estimate, were far less than the casualties that would have
>resulted from fighting the war to its bitter end in a conventional manner.
>"Mopping up" the inventors of the kamikaze airplane, including the final
>defence of their homeland, would have involved more Japanese CIVILIAN casualties
>than two small (by current standards) nuclear bombs.  So it can be argued,
>quite reasonably, that the first use of atomic bombs SAVED lives.)

It's been suggested, in my opinion reasonably, that dropping those bombs on
a less heavily inhabited area, such as a smaller island, would have been
enough to convince the Japanese to surrender.  In fact, this is just where
the generals and the scientists began to disagree, if I remember my history.

On the other hand, would we have avoided WW III for forty years if we hadn't
seen what a small nuclear bomb does to a city?  Maybe we owe a *very* big
debt to those Japanese dead.  Let's hope we go on owing it.
-- 
Jim Clarke -- Dept. of Computer Science, Univ. of Toronto, Canada M5S 1A4
              (416) 978-4058
{allegra,cornell,decvax,ihnp4,linus,utzoo}!utcsri!clarke

henry@utzoo.UUCP (Henry Spencer) (07/23/85)

> It's been suggested, in my opinion reasonably, that dropping those bombs on
> a less heavily inhabited area, such as a smaller island, would have been
> enough to convince the Japanese to surrender.

This issue came up quite a while ago in fa.arms-d, and I wrote a lengthy
rebuttal to this viewpoint.  If enough people send me mail requesting
it (note, MAIL, not followups), I'll post it.  Two-sentence summary:

	The political situation in Japan was more complicated than
	Westerners would think, and surrender was very difficult.
	It is most unlikely that a demonstration would have been
	enough; two atom-bombed cities just barely sufficed.
-- 
				Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
				{allegra,ihnp4,linus,decvax}!utzoo!henry

brown@utflis.UUCP (Susan Brown) (07/24/85)

In article <5816@utzoo.UUCP> henry@utzoo.UUCP (Henry Spencer) writes:
>> It's been suggested, in my opinion reasonably, that dropping those bombs on
>> a less heavily inhabited area, such as a smaller island, would have been
>> enough to convince the Japanese to surrender.
>
>	The political situation in Japan was more complicated than
>	Westerners would think, and surrender was very difficult.
>	It is most unlikely that a demonstration would have been
>	enough; two atom-bombed cities just barely sufficed.
>				Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
But there wasn't much time between the two to assess the affects in the
Japanese government.  Communications were out etc. Maybe the first one
would have been enough.  A number of "revisionists" take the view that
the second one was to show Stalin that business was meant.  Does your
lengthy article discuss these aspects?  If so, I would be interested.