mmt@dciem.UUCP (Martin Taylor) (09/17/85)
> The real problem with nuclear reacors on subs is the same problem >as with nuclear reactors on land; *waste materials*! I don't believe >that products from coal burning power plants are more dangerous. If >I am wrong on this count, then I can at least state that they will >not remain that dangerous for thousands of years. High grade radio- >active wastes do! They will be around, and still be deadly, long after >Canada, the US, and the USSR are long forgotten. >-- >Cheers, Fred Williams, You may state it, but that doesn't make it true. Chemical carcinogens and mutagens damage humanity in the same way as do radioactive wastes (not by the same mechanism), but unlike radioactive wastes, they don't decay away very fast. They, too, will be around long after our countries and our power industries are long forgotten. High-grade radioactive wastes don't remain high-grade for too many centuries, although they do remain dangerous. However, they are concentrated in places that can be marked as dangerous, whereas the wastes of carbon-burning plants are distributed for everyone to enjoy :-(. If you think about the worst possible accident, also, carbon-burning power plants are more dangerous than nuclear reactors. It is *possible* for a terrorist to blow up a nuclear plant with an atomic bomb, and thus render many thousands of square miles uninhabitable. It is *possible* that burning enough carbon might cause a runaway greenhouse effect, rendering ALL life on earth impossible. Both the expected hazard and the maximum hazard are greater for fossil fuels than for nuclear power. -- Martin Taylor {allegra,linus,ihnp4,floyd,ubc-vision}!utzoo!dciem!mmt {uw-beaver,qucis,watmath}!utcsri!dciem!mmt
fred@mnetor.UUCP (Fred Williams) (09/18/85)
In article <1681@dciem.UUCP> mmt@dciem.UUCP (Martin Taylor) writes: >You may state it, but that doesn't make it true. Chemical carcinogens >and mutagens damage humanity in the same way as do radioactive wastes >(not by the same mechanism), but unlike radioactive wastes, they don't >decay away very fast. They, too, will be around long after our countries >and our power industries are long forgotten. High-grade radioactive wastes >don't remain high-grade for too many centuries, although they do >remain dangerous. OK, I'll grant that radioactive materials are not the only problem. However, there are radioactive wastes that will still be deadly 100,000 years from now. That is quite a few centuries. >... It is *possible* >for a terrorist to blow up a nuclear plant with an atomic bomb, and thus >render many thousands of square miles uninhabitable. It is *possible* >that burning enough carbon might cause a runaway greenhouse effect, >rendering ALL life on earth impossible. > It is possible that the greenhouse effect will do that. But it is definate that if the nuclear waste that we've tucked away already were to leak and become evenly distributed around the earth, that all the higher life forms would perish, and that includes us! -- Cheers, Fred Williams, UUCP: {allegra, linus, ihnp4}!utzoo!mnetor!fred BELL: (416)-475-8980 ext. 318
henry@utzoo.UUCP (Henry Spencer) (09/18/85)
> However, there are radioactive wastes that will still be deadly > 100,000 years from now. That is quite a few centuries. Note that the proper standard of comparison here is not "is the stuff dangerous?" but "is it more dangerous than natural uranium ore?". There are vast amounts of uranium ore around; anything with a danger level less than that is not a significant *addition* to the natural danger level. One possible reason for differences on how long the stuff is dangerous is the question of whether plutonium is extracted for use as fuel, or left in the wastes and hence thrown away. Plutonium is a significant factor in radioactivity on the 100kyr scale, although it's relatively unimportant on the 100yr scale. > ... But it is > definate that if the nuclear waste that we've tucked away already > were to leak and become evenly distributed around the earth, that > all the higher life forms would perish, and that includes us! And if all the energy in one atom bomb were carefully distributed in the right places, that would suffice to destroy all higher life forms too. But we were discussing realistic situations, not grossly contrived ones. -- Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology {allegra,ihnp4,linus,decvax}!utzoo!henry
fred@mnetor.UUCP (Fred Williams) (09/19/85)
In article <5981@utzoo.UUCP> henry@utzoo.UUCP (Henry Spencer) writes: >> ... But it is >> definate that if the nuclear waste that we've tucked away already >> were to leak and become evenly distributed around the earth, that >> all the higher life forms would perish, and that includes us! > >And if all the energy in one atom bomb were carefully distributed in the >right places, that would suffice to destroy all higher life forms too. >But we were discussing realistic situations, not grossly contrived ones. Who is going to baby-sit this stuff for thew next 1000 centuries? Are you volunteering Henry? People will forget where it is! People will forget what nation put it there. People will forget what the danger markers mean. People will dig it up and scatter it all around before they know what's hit them. A few will die within a few days and the rest will figure out what has happened, (*IF* they still understand what radiation means), and try to contain things. But there is a long time to wait. How many times will the sites be forgotten, and re-discovered? It is not at all unrealistic that much of this material will find it's way into the environment in which we live. The levels of radiation at that point will be high enough to destroy the human gene pool. This does not mean that I think other forms of pollution are unimportant, but we have to start making decisions in a responsible manner about all of our large scale activities. If we don't know what to do with nuclear wastes, we have no business creating them! Yes I know I've been expounding on this quite a lot lately and I'm preparing to shut up soon. But every time I see someone calling my reasoning grossly contrived my blood pressure goes up a few notches. Have a nice day, Henry(:-)> -- Cheers, Fred Williams, UUCP: {allegra, linus, ihnp4}!utzoo!mnetor!fred BELL: (416)-475-8980 ext. 318