bstempleton@watmath.UUCP (02/27/87)
It's good to see some agreement between the socialists and the libertarians on the list. We both dislike democracy. Socialists don't want democracy because they know that if the majority really supported any given program, socialist laws would not be necessary -- the majority would just go ahead and support it. Socialists realize that only in a government controlled by minorities and special interests does state control of the means of production make any sense. Libertarians dislike democracy because they believe that in most cases, 99% of the population does not have the right to dictate the free, private behavior of a single individual. For example, a libertarian believes that it isn't right to steal, no matter how many people want to do it. A socialist believes that it is right to steal no matter how many people don't want it to happen. There are two alternatives to democracy Some day I will have to write a book about the alternative to democracy I have devised. We all know about the alternative to democracy that makes socialism function. -- Brad Templeton, Looking Glass Software, Waterloo, Ont. (519) 884-7473
reid@sask.UUCP (I am NOT your Sweet Baboo) (02/27/87)
In article <5471@watmath.UUCP>, bstempleton@watmath.UUCP writes: > It's good to see some agreement between the socialists and the libertarians > on the list. We both dislike democracy. > Socialists don't want democracy because they know that if the majority > really supported any given program, socialist laws would not be necessary > -- the majority would just go ahead and support it. Socialists realize that > only in a government controlled by minorities and special interests does > state control of the means of production make any sense. ... I was hoping to stay out of this discussion, but this is getting pretty bad. Nothing personal, Brad, but have you studied any political science? Do you know what socialism is, or are you just guessing? Worker control of the means of production is one of the central ideas in Marxism. Marxist-Leninism extends this control to the state, since the workers are supposed to be in control of the state. Socialism in general (try to find a good hard definition of socialism some time...) does not concern itself with the means of production; more important is the idea that the state is responsible for the well-being of its inhabitants. That may be achieved by state control of production, but is more often done through taxation of a private economy and a strong social welfare system. > A socialist believes that it is right to steal no matter how many people > don't want it to happen. ... What an inane statement. (oops - I _tried_ not to flame...) If by that statement you are referring to taxation which supports social welfare, you must remember that the majority of people in Canada support (or at least don't oppose) social welfare, since that is how our government is supposed to work. If you mean state expropriation of industry and the property of the rich, please remember that those are the doctrines of Leninism and have nothing at all to do with socialism. > -- > Brad Templeton, Looking Glass Software, Waterloo, Ont. (519) 884-7473 - irving reid - -- reid@sask.uucp {alberta, ihnp4, utcsri}!sask!reid What the world REALLY needs is a good automatic bicycle sharpener...
manis@ubc-cs.UUCP (02/27/87)
In article <5471@watmath.UUCP> bstempleton@watmath.UUCP (Brad Templeton) writes: >A socialist believes that it is right to steal no matter how many people >don't want it to happen. Whereas a libertarian believes that though it is wrong to steal, it's equally wrong to stop someone else from stealing?? :-) "Under capitalism, man exploits man, whereas under socialism it is exactly the opposite." ----- Vincent Manis {ihnp4!alberta,uw-beaver}!ubc-vision!ubc-cs!manis Dept. of Computer Science manis@cs.ubc.cdn Univ. of British Columbia manis%ubc.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa Vancouver, B.C. V6T 1W5 manis@ubc.csnet (604) 228-6770 or 228-3061 "BASIC is the Computer Science equivalent of 'Scientific Creationism'."