kaden@uiucuxc.UUCP (08/31/84)
#N:uiucuxc:24800004:000:67 uiucuxc!kaden Aug 30 16:37:00 1984 Does anyone know what John Norman writes about? Is it SF material?
neff@ihuxf.UUCP (n) (08/31/84)
Norman is the author, I believe, of the garbage known as the GOR series of books. They are billed as SF adventure stories but their overriding theme is that the natural state of women, and the condition they really prefer is total enslavement to men. The guy is an incredibly sick individual.
betsy@dartvax.UUCP (Betsy Hanes Perry) (09/02/84)
John Norman writes the 'Gor' novels.
I wouldn't call it SF, but it certainly ain't reality.
(for the uninitiated: the Gor novels are the ones with the voluptuous
slave-girls cowering on every cover. Mr. Norman's major premise is
that women prefer to be dominated.)
--
Betsy Perry
UUCP: {decvax|linus|cornell}!dartvax!betsy "What is Truth?" said
CSNET: betsy@dartmouth jesting Pilate; and would
ARPA: betsy%dartmouth@csnet-relay not stay for an answer.barry@ames.UUCP (Ken Barry) (09/05/84)
[*************=8>:) (snort)]
Some years back, I heard a radio interview with Donald A. Wollheim,
the owner of DAW Books, who publishes John Norman's books. When asked
about John Norman, he made a few statements which I think are worth repeating.
First, he said that Norman has not allowed a word of his books to be
edited since they became successful enough for Norman to get away with
this (and at the time of the interview, Norman's "Gor" books were DAW's
biggest sellers). Those of you who've read them may therefore stop wondering
why they went from fairly innocuous and routine heroic adventure in the
first 2-3 books, to kinky S/M in all the later ones. That element was
there from the beginning, but only came to dominate the foreground by
about the fourth book.
Rick Hawkins doesn't believe Norman could be serious about the
picture of women's roles in these books, but according to Wollheim he
IS serious. Though I wouldn't necessarily conclude he would literally
want women to be slaves, he apparently is fond of the slave mentality
in women.
Wollheim was also asked if he received much mail about the books.
He said he did, that it was mostly fan mail, and that it came mostly
from women(!). I'm content to leave an explanation of this to the wisdom
of the net, except to say, no flames, please, I'm just reporting what
Wollheim said.
Well, you'll have to excuse me now; I have to get back to my
harem :-).
- From the Crow's Nest - Kenn Barry
NASA-Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA
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Electric Avenue: {dual,hao,menlo70,hplabs}!ames!barryhawk@oliven.UUCP (09/06/84)
>Rick Hawkins doesn't believe Norman could be serious about the >picture of women's roles in these books, but according to Wollheim he >IS serious. I tried to cancel that article reading a couple later in the list about his putting out a sex manual based on these theories. I thought that I had succeeded (sp?). Guess not. I still find it hard to believe that anyone could be serious about this though. Then again, I only read the first three and about half of the fourth. There was a noticable downstep between the third and fourth. -- rick (Rick Hawkins @ Olivetti ATC) [hplabs|zehntel|fortune|ios|tolerant|allegra|tymix]!oliveb!oliven!hawk
lauren@vortex.UUCP (Lauren Weinstein) (09/08/84)
Apparently there was quite an UPSTEP later -- though that is based on third-hand information and occasional browsing I've done in bookstores of the later volumes. There was apparently even one book written first-person by an Earth male taken to Gor as a slave to women, but by the end of the book you can guess who had the upper hand... People who have read Lange's doctoral works claim that they seem to fit (in a scholarly sort of way) with his fiction concepts. I'm told it has a lot to do with "natural order" and similar sorts of stuff. The next time I'm in the Tri-State area, I'm going to try confront Lange myself. I know EXACTLY where he is, and I want to have a little "chat" with him. (Actually, this is one way some characters in his books have ended up on Gor -- by harrassing Lange. But... NAH...) --Lauren--
lauren@vortex.UUCP (Lauren Weinstein) (09/08/84)
John Norman (real name John Lange) is primarily the author of the
ever-growing, voluminous, awful, and infamous "Gor" SF/trash series.
Interestingly enough, Lange is a full professor of philosophy at
a college in the NYC area (I will refrain from mentioning which one).
He has been raking in the dough for years, and DAW books basically
survives based on the sales from his "writings."
--Lauren--
P.S. For a real "treat," try dig up his non-fiction work called
"Imaginative Sex." It's a sex manual that implements his
philosophies. Truly bizarre.
--LW--ecl@hocsj.UUCP (09/12/84)
REFERENCE: <24800004@uiucuxc.UUCP> <2371@ihuxf.UUCP>, <448@oliven.UUCP> <509@ames.UUCP>, <4471@brl-tgr.ARPA> The other non-"Gor" book (besides TIME SLAVE) is GHOST DANCE, which I believe was his first novel. Even if you *hate* the "Gor" novels, consider that they are (in Donald Wollheim's words), "the engine that pulls the DAW train" and that many of the good novels DAW publishes get a chance only because DAW makes a *lot* of money on Norman's work. Evelyn C. Leeper ...ihnp4!hocsj!ecl
jcp@brl-tgr.ARPA (Joe Pistritto <jcp>) (09/14/84)
I will confirm what the fellow from NASA/Ames said, that the majority of the mail regarding the John Norman/GOR series is from women. Further, I have also heard that the mail runs on average 2 to 3 to 1 favorable to the series. Both of these facts were gleaned from a running dialog that happened on net.sf-lovers about 18 months ago about GOR. There is another, non-GOR book by Norman that follows the same general vein, called 'Time Slave' dealing with prehistoric Earth, (and what happens when 20th century people get transported there thru the magic of technology). I can't remember the name of the other non-GOR book I have read by Norman, its set in the 1850s or so among the American Indian tribes. Then, of course, there is 'Imaginative Sex', which is non-fiction, although I haven't been able to locate a copy around here (Balto-Wash). -JCP-