susie@uwmacc.UUCP (sue brunkow) (05/19/85)
Summary: Expires: Sender: Reply-To: susie@uwmacc.UUCP (sue brunkow) Followup-To: Distribution: Organization: U Wisconsin-Madison Academic Computing Ctr Keywords: In article <594@tpvax.fluke.UUCP> inc@fluke.UUCP (Gary Benson) writes: >> So, it must be good, eh? By the way, it was used as a text -- at >> least the year before publication it was -- at Indiana U (the Hoosiers). > >Used as a text? So what? At the University of Wisconsin (GO BADGERS!) you >can take a course called "Poetry for Engineers" that uses some real >*garbage* as texts. Are you talking about 'Technology in Literature'? This was a class in the General Engineering Dept. which I took 9 years ago. Some of the books which I remember reading include: All Quiet on the Western Front, The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock (a poem by T. S. Eliot), The Machine Stops (a short story by E. M. Forster), and Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Manitainance. Maybe the last one qualifies as 'junk', but the rest of these certainly don't! Now, I have a question for everybody: If you were designing a course, for technological people, covering different views of technology and its impact on society; which books, stories, or music etc would you include? Sue Brunkow University of Wisconsin {allegra,ihnp4,seismo}!uwvax!uwmacc!susie
philip@bu-cs.UUCP (Philip Borenstein) (05/21/85)
[] _Zen_and_the_Art_of_Motorcycle_Maintenance_ is junk?! That, if any, book deals with the impact of technology on society (to say nothing of the individual). While I remember little of the actual content, I do know that it helped me understand my relationship to technology in general and software engineering in particular. When asked what ZAMM was about, a coworker of mine would reply "Be one person." --p borenstein. uucp ...harvard!bu-cs!philip arpa philip%bu-cs@csnet-relat.arpa csnet philip@bu-cs
markg@nvuxf.UUCP (M. Guzdial) (05/21/85)
I took such a class at Wayne State University in Detroit, and really
felt that it dealt with the subject well. I don't remember all of the
books we dealt with but here are a few that stand out in my mind;
"Player Piano" by Vonnegut
"Cat's Cradle" also by Kurt Vonnegut
"Hard Times" by Charles Dickens
Short Story: "The Roads Will Roll" (or something to that effect)
by Robert Heinlein
"Car Culture" (can't remember the author)
"Brave New World" by Aldous Huxley
Perhaps there is an advantage to the fact that most of these are
science fiction in that the students might be more willing to read
them since it is a "technical genre" from the outset.
--
Mark Guzdial
{ihnp4, houxm}!nvuxf!markg
(201) 949-5471goodrum@unc.UUCP (Cloyd Goodrum) (05/22/85)
In article <uwmacc.1103> susie@uwmacc.UUCP (sue brunkow) writes: > > > Now, I have a question for everybody: > If you were designing a course, for technological people, >covering different views of technology and its impact >on society; which books, stories, or music >etc would you include? > > > Sue Brunkow > University of Wisconsin > {allegra,ihnp4,seismo}!uwvax!uwmacc!susie I would definitely include "Love In The Ruins", Walker Percy's only science fiction novel. It deals with an alcholic, suicidal psychiatrist who is living in a time when mankind has gone even more bananas than it is now. He knows that something is gravely wrong with people, and develops a device called an "ontological lapsometer" which he intends to use cure basic human failings. Walker Percy is a Roman Catholic who briefly studied psychiatry in Medical school, and all of his novels explore the tension between the Freudian scientific view of the human condition, and the spiritual,more traditional Catholic view. LITR is a surprisingly amusing treatment of this subject. Two other excellent novels that explore technological solutions to human problems amenable to technological solutions are "A Clockwork Orange" by Anthony Burgess and "That Hideous Strength" by C.S. Lewis. Cloyd Goodrum III not really solv
kilian@pbsvax.DEC (05/23/85)
In response to the message on what books to use for teaching the impact
of technology on society I would recommend looking not at so much science
fiction (which I believe trivializes the impact of technology by too often
taking it away from the realm of our every day life) but novels which deal
with it as it occurs now. Some choices I would think about are:
Thomas Pynchon: Gravity's Rainbow
-- Is man in love with the missile that the hero
so desperately seeks. What exactly is the
relationship of man to his technology, especially
in connection with a war.
The Crying of Lot 49
-- A shorter and more readable book by Pynchon.
An indictment of the culture which has created
giant shopping malls. It also explores technology
as almost a cult affair.
Kurt Vonnegut: Cats Cradle
-- Perhaps too many people have already read this
book. Another Vonnegut book to look at would
be Player Piano.
James Fenimore Cooper: The Pioneers
-- Pioneers exploit the wilderness. It is the beginning
of the fading of our frontiers. It also shows
that man very rarely learns from mistakes.
There are many more. I think what these books emphasize is not so much the
effects of technology on society but the relationships, ideas and culture
which makes up the good and bad of technology in our society.
-- Mike Kilianmms1646@acf4.UUCP (Michael M. Sykora) (05/24/85)
> Walker Percy is a Roman Catholic who briefly studied psychiatry in >Medical school, and all of his novels explore the tension between the Freudian >scientific view of the human condition, and the spiritual,more traditional >Catholic view. Who says Freud's is the scientific view? Psychoanalysts? Incidentally, Zamyatin's classic, "We," also deals with this topic, although it has some of the same problems as Vonnegut's books on tyhe subject, namely that science rather than people who claim to be acting in the name of science is the chief antagonist. Mike Sykora
waltt@tekecs.UUCP (Walt Tucker) (05/24/85)
> Now, I have a question for everybody: > If you were designing a course, for technological people, >covering different views of technology and its impact >on society; which books, stories, or music >etc would you include? I always thought the short story "There Will Come Soft Rains" by Ray Bradbury fit into this category nicely. You can find this story in Bradbury's "The Martian Chronicles." I believe I read it the first time as a stand-alone piece in high school in a literary class segment dealing with technology. Good short story. -- Walt Tucker
mms1646@acf4.UUCP (Michael M. Sykora) (05/25/85)
>/* kilian@pbsvax.DEC / 1:57 pm May 23, 1985 */ >In response to the message on what books to use for teaching the impact >of technology on society I would recommend looking not at so much science >fiction (which I believe trivializes the impact of technology by too often >taking it away from the realm of our every day life) but novels which deal >with it as it occurs now. Some choices I would think about are: > . . . This list is ridiculously one sided. However, that may be mainly because there isn't that much good literature out there praising technology, indeed it would probably seem silly as Vonnegut showed in "Cat's Cradle." The only good book I can think of offhand is Rand's "Anthem." Anybody out there know of anything other fiction that points out the good side (no necessarily celebrates) of technology? Mike Sykora
mms1646@acf4.UUCP (Michael M. Sykora) (05/26/85)
>/* kilian@pbsvax.DEC / 1:57 pm May 23, 1985 */ >In response to the message on what books to use for teaching the impact >of technology on society I would recommend looking not at so much science >fiction (which I believe trivializes the impact of technology by too often >taking it away from the realm of our every day life) but novels which deal >with it as it occurs now. Some choices I would think about are: > . . . This list is ridiculously one sided. However, that may be mainly because there isn't that much good literature out there praising technology. Indeed, it would probably seem silly as Vonnegut showed in "Cat's Cradle." The only good book that conveys a positive image of technology I can think of offhand is Rand's "Anthem." Anybody out there know of anything other fiction that points out (but not necessarily celebrates) the good side of technology? Mike Sykora
tonyw@ubvax.UUCP (Tony Wuersch) (05/30/85)
The question of what books, music, etc. to feature in a course
on technology, society, and people is a really great question!!
Thanks, sue brunkow.
My suggestion for the list is a book by (?) Luria, the Soviet
psychologist, called "Cognitive Development". (MIT Press, I
recall). He's most famous in the US for a book called "The
Mind of a Mnemonist", about a man with perfect memory who had
become lost in it.
"Cognitive development" is an account of field work Luria did in the
USSR during its huge literacy campaign of the 1930's. He shows
diagnostically, by asking just the right questions and probing
people's responses (a lesson for survey researchers today), that
tremendous changes take place in how people see their world, the
structures they see which they couldn't see before, when they are
introduced to new concepts, shapes, and forms of organization.
At that time, many peasants had never seen a book or educated
people before. They had no concept of "circle", "oval", "round",
etc. They thought a circle was some kind of cup or bowl. And
their appreciation of more abstract concepts was linked to the
opportunity to deal with more general responsibilities, like
leading a group or dealing with a larger bureaucracy.
An important point of the book is that people's cognitive development
changes and adapts to new social responsibilities. So if you change
society to require more abstract thinking, more abstract thinking will
develop in people who fill the new roles. Luria's work doesn't show
that if society is changed to require less abstract thinking, then
people will change and become more provincial and concrete. Maybe
that would take a change of generations.
The first thing a course on technology and society should show is
how technology changes people. The Luria book is a great example
of a moment in history where many people suddenly changed.
Tony Wuersch
{amd,amdcad}!cae780!ubvax!tonywmms1646@acf4.UUCP (Michael M. Sykora) (05/31/85)
>/* acf4:net.books / rs@mirror.UUCP / 1:55 pm May 25, 1985 */ > The Second Self, Sherry Turkle > how computers change individuals, from little kids > who become more self-confident, to the stereotyped > mit/berkeley/stanford hacker Computers don't change individuals. In the absence of computers, these hackers would likely find something else to lose themselves in. I think it's important to remember that computers as tools give us new options, but they don't force us into anything. All that is required is the self discipline to know when it's time to walk away from the keyboard. Mike Sykora
barnett@ut-sally.UUCP (Lewis Barnett) (06/01/85)
> Now, I have a question for everybody: > If you were designing a course, for technological people, >covering different views of technology and its impact >on society; which books, stories, or music >etc would you include? > My recommendation is _The God That Limps: Science and Technology in the Eighties_ by Colin Norman. (publisher - Norton) The title refers to Hephaestus, the Greek god of fire and metalworking. Though an important member of the pantheon, he was crippled. The book debunks a great many popular ideas about the proper application of technology to problems the world faces these days. I think this book is out in paperback, and I'd advise any person involved in technology-oriented activities to read it. Lewis Barnett,CS Dept, Painter Hall 3.28, Univ. of Texas, Austin, TX 78712 -- barnett@ut-sally.ARPA, barnett@ut-sally.UUCP, {ihnp4,harvard,seismo,gatech,ctvax}!ut-sally!barnett
chabot@miles.DEC (Bih ih bih) (06/02/85)
Leo Marx, _The_Machine_in_the_Garden_ (non-fiction, still in print). L S Chabot ...decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-amber!chabot chabot%amber.dec@decwrl.arpa
pmd@cbscc.UUCP (Paul Dubuc) (06/04/85)
I have two suggestions off the top of my head for the book list. They have probably be thought of already: 1) Jacques Ellul's _The Technological Society_ 2) Jeremy Rifkin's _Entropy_ -- Paul Dubuc cbscc!pmd
todd@reed.UUCP (Todd Ellner) (06/08/85)
> This list is ridiculously one sided. However, that may be mainly because > there isn't that much good literature out there praising technology. > Indeed, it would probably seem silly as Vonnegut showed in "Cat's Cradle." > The only good book that conveys a positive image of technology I can think of > offhand is Rand's "Anthem." Anybody out there know of anything other fiction > that points out (but not necessarily celebrates) the good side of technology? > > Mike Sykora *** REPLACE THIS LINE WITH YOUR MESSAGE *** I don't know if my last posting got through, so please excuse if this is a repeat. Samuel Florman's _The_Existential_Pleasures_of_Engineering_ and _Blaming_Technology_, while not actually fiction, point out the good, or at least a realistic, picture of technology. As I said, they are not fiction but still very good reading for anyone interested in the issues surrounding the subject. Todd Ellner
waltt@tekecs.UUCP (Walt Tucker) (06/13/85)
> This list is ridiculously one sided. However, that may be mainly because > there isn't that much good literature out there praising technology. > Indeed, it would probably seem silly as Vonnegut showed in "Cat's Cradle." > The only good book that conveys a positive image of technology I can think of > offhand is Rand's "Anthem." Anybody out there know of anything other fiction > that points out (but not necessarily celebrates) the good side of technology? > > Mike Sykora Going back quite aways, how about "Looking Backward" by Edward Bellamy. This book, published in the 1880s, is about a man of that period who goes to sleep and wakes up in the utopian society of the year 2000. It has been a number of years (about 10-15) since I read this book, but I seem to recall that the technology was presented very positively. Also, many of the predictions were pretty good considering the time the book was written in. I have seen references to this book in a number of literature articles, and get the feeling that it is one of the classic books dealing with future utopian societies (on par with "1984" and "Brave New World", which deal with "negative-utopia" futures). -- Walt Tucker Tektronix, Inc.
mac@uvacs.UUCP (Alex Colvin) (06/14/85)
*** REPLACE THIS LINE WITH YOUR point ***
I agree with Paul Dubuc.
> 1) Jacques Ellul's _The Technological Society_
An excellent book. Very Dense. Statement from the Publisher (Alfred
Knopf), Foreword, Translator's Introduction, in addition to the author's
Note to the Reader, Foreword to the Revised American Edition, Author's
Preface to the French Edition. Plus 436 pages text.
From the Note to the Reader:
The term _technique_, as I use it, does not mean machines,
technology, or this or that procedure for attaining an end.
In our technological society, _technique is the totality of
methods rationally arrived at and having absolute
efficiency_ (for a given stage of development) in _every_
field of human activity. Its characteristics are new; the
technique of the present has no common measure with that of
the past.
There is also a book from MIT press, _Autonomous Technology_.
Not as good or well written.mms1646@acf4.UUCP (Michael M. Sykora) (06/16/85)
>/* mac@uvacs.UUCP / 6:29 pm Jun 13, 1985 */ > The term _technique_, as I use it, does not mean machines, > technology, or this or that procedure for attaining an end. > In our technological society, _technique is the totality of > methods rationally arrived at and having absolute > efficiency_ (for a given stage of development) in _every_ > field of human activity. Its characteristics are new; the > technique of the present has no common measure with that of > the past. Huh? What does this mean?
lied@ihlts.UUCP (Bob Lied) (06/18/85)
> >/* mac@uvacs.UUCP / 6:29 pm Jun 13, 1985 */ > > > The term _technique_, as I use it, does not mean machines, > > technology, or this or that procedure for attaining an end. > > In our technological society, _technique is the totality of > > methods rationally arrived at and having absolute > > efficiency_ (for a given stage of development) in _every_ > > field of human activity. Its characteristics are new; the > > technique of the present has no common measure with that of > > the past. > > Huh? What does this mean? I don't know, but it's going into the abstract of my next document. :-). Bob Lied ihnp4!ihlts!lied
slb@drutx.UUCP (Sue Brezden) (06/19/85)
For a positive look at the way technology and science have
influenced man, I would recommend "The Ascent of Man" by
Bronowski. (based on the PBS series of the same name)
Although it is primarily a book of history, it reads like
literature. (Bronowski was a William Blake expert, as well
as a mathematition, and writes well.)
Bronowski did the series and book in large part because of
the way science and technology are often ignored by historians.
In particular, I remember hearing that he was spurred by
the "Civilization" PBS series, which managed to go through
history with scant mention of science.
--
Sue Brezden
Real World: Room 1B17 Net World: ihnp4!drutx!slb
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~jeff@rtech.UUCP (Jeff Lichtman) (06/20/85)
> >/* mac@uvacs.UUCP / 6:29 pm Jun 13, 1985 */ > > > The term _technique_, as I use it, does not mean machines, > > technology, or this or that procedure for attaining an end. > > In our technological society, _technique is the totality of > > methods rationally arrived at and having absolute > > efficiency_ (for a given stage of development) in _every_ > > field of human activity. Its characteristics are new; the > > technique of the present has no common measure with that of > > the past. > > Huh? What does this mean? It means that the Emperor is *too* wearing clothes. :-) -- Jeff Lichtman at rtech (Relational Technology, Inc.) aka Swazoo Koolak {amdahl, sun}!rtech!jeff {ucbvax, decvax}!mtxinu!rtech!jeff