oleg@birtch.UUCP (Oleg Kiselev x258) (10/01/85)
In his review of JHEREG by Stephen Brust Mark R. Leeper writes > In a world where magic works, a man who > is basically a cheap detective of the Sam Spade sort is given a single task > not too different from one he might be given in our world. Oh, come on! The guy was running a protection racket! He was a gangster and a part-time assassin. That was one of the interesting things about JHEREG -- a gangster/private eye in the world where magic works! > Brust has created a world where different rules work. Characters who > are killed may or may not come back, characters teleport at will--there are > a number of differences. But the world is self-consistent and with some > substitutions not really very different from ours. Well, thanks for figuring *that* out! The world of JHEREG (and YENDI) is one of the most consistent systems ever to appear in fantasy/sf. It is a *very* well done system with *very* few loose ends. > Aside from the multiplicity of unfamiliar names--probably not a > drawback for most other readers--the story is fairly well-written. I did, > however, all too often come up confused as to who was who in the book and > because of that, did not enjoy the book as much as I might have. Rate the > book a +1 on the -4 to +4 scale. Oh, poor you! I bet you put away Zelazny's "Lord of Light" after the first few pages. And how often do you read historical books? Especially the ones on times and lands quite remote. I am sure you've never read any of the Russian great writers -- because you couldn't remember the names and places... JHEREG does not sport an overwhelming cast of characters. Their names are easily remembered and pronunciation is given. Next time why don't you set up a list of names of characters you encounter in a book and who they are and just give them plain English names ( for your own benefit) like "Joe", "Pete", "One eyed pirate", " A paraplegic beggar", etc. and think of everything in those terms. you could do same with places and cities : Boston, New York, Phili instead of the goblety-gook names the silly authors insist on. And as long as we are at it why not replace magic with something else. Like cabs instead of teleports... CPR instead of "raise dead" spell... If the story doesn't make any sense after all these transformations -- I guess it wasn't good enough to start with... Mark, my advise to you : quit sf/fantasy reading and concentrate on NY Times Top 10 bestseller list. They will not have all the strange names and masses of characters ( else how would they have *ever* made it into the top 10?). As far as my opinion on Steven Brust's writing : I think he is one of the finest new authors in fantasy/sf. JHEREG (and its sequel YENDI) are enjoyable reading. His "To Reign in Hell" was an exellent analysis of an old story and is a very pleasant book.
leeper@mtgzz.UUCP (m.r.leeper) (10/02/85)
JHEREG by Stephen Brust
Ace, 1983, $2.95.
A book review by Mark R. Leeper
(**Spoiler warning**)
One of the great things about fantasy is its ability to drop you into
the middle of a fully realized world completely of the author's
construction. If you are dropped into the middle of an alien world, you
will quickly discover that the best thing to have along is a great memory
for new names and foreign terms. This is one of the reasons I do very
poorly when dropped into the middle of alien worlds: I can keep straight
maybe six characters in a novel without taking notes. That's why of science
fiction, horror, and fantasy, fantasy is what I read the least. The last
fantasy I really enjoyed was DAMIANO by R. A. MacAvoy. It has just a few
characters and the supernatural beaties it deals with are unimaginative
things like angels and devils. If you have a reasonably good memory, first,
I envy you, and second, expect a different reaction to JHEREG than I had.
The basic story is not a bad one, though I am a little surprised that
it was able to make a whole novel. In a world where magic works, a man who
is basically a cheap detective of the Sam Spade sort is given a single task
not too different from one he might be given in our world. (I'm trying not
too reveal too much.) The rest of the novel is how he discovers why he is
performing the task of revenge, why the object of his revenge is doing what
he is doing, what the complications are, and finally, how he accomplishes
his mission. In and of itself the problem is not all that complex and
somehow the solution seems too simple.
So the plot is not the strong suit of JHEREG. Brust, however, has an
ear for witty repartee and for characterization. Some of his dialogue is a
positive joy to read. When the pacing is slow, the dialogue is what keeps
the reader going.
Brust has created a world where different rules work. Characters who
are killed may or may not come back, characters teleport at will--there are
a number of differences. But the world is self-consistent and with some
substitutions not really very different from ours.
Aside from the multiplicity of unfamiliar names--probably not a
drawback for most other readers--the story is fairly well-written. I did,
however, all too often come up confused as to who was who in the book and
because of that, did not enjoy the book as much as I might have. Rate the
book a +1 on the -4 to +4 scale.
Mark R. Leeper
...ihnp4!mtgzz!leepergt3403b@gitpyr.UUCP (Ray Chen) (10/12/85)
Sorry, but I can't let people rag on one of my favorite books.
First, I have no sympathy for anyone who complains about the names &
number of characters in Jhereg. For one thing, there simply aren't
that many characters, to say nothing of "main" characters (by that
I mean characters whose personalities you get to know). Their names
are all pronouncable and a pronunciation guide is supplied for the more
difficult names. (If you thing Jhereg was bad, try The Dragon Waiting
by John Ford. A great book, but boy do you have to work.)
I count six main characters. The main character, his partner,
his three Dragonlord friends, and his wife. Even then, you don't get
to know them that well. Jhereg is not a characterization book.
Jhereg *is* a story book.
I also found it strange that the initial review referred to the main
character as a "private eye". Perhaps the book should be re-read.
Vlad Taltos (the main character) is not a private eye. He's
an organized crime boss and an assassin.
The story itself is the story of an assassination from the initial
contact, to the background work, setup, and execution (if you'll pardon
the pun).
Three things make this book notable as far as I'm concerned.
First, the incredibly consistent and believable world.
SKZB takes a world of psionics, witchcraft and sorcery and
makes it work so well that it almost appears mundane.
Second, while the basic plot is simple, the episodes in the plot
are not. There are a *lot* of interesting things going on and although
all of them are explained pretty clearly at some point or another,
the sheer deviousness of some of them had me shaking my head in
admiration.
Third, this is one of the few books I've read that gets the reader to
identify and sympathize with an assassin who's trying to kill someone.
I think it's a great tribute to SKZB's ability as a writer that he
manages to do this without making the reader realize that anything
extrordinary has happened.
Ray Chen
gitpyr!chen
Georgia Insitute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332
...!{akgua,allegra,amd,hplabs,ihnp4,seismo,ut-ngp}!gatech!gitpyr!chendb@cstvax.UUCP (Dave Berry) (10/15/85)
This follows a flame on the use of strange names in fantasy books (see below). I know some people who are put off fantasy/SF by the names of the characters, saying it shows *LACK of imagination* on the part of the author. The argument goes something like this: If all the characters' speech is translated into English, should not the names be translated also? If necessary, names that sound foreign to most english-speakers can be used for foreigners in the book, etc. If the authors have to rely on strange names to create a "sense of wonder", then they probably aren't good writers. If strange names are used, then they should have some derivation, just as most english names have some derivation, such as familial structure, reference to occupation etc. Tolkein is sometimes cited as a good example, I would think that Carolyn Cherryh is another. This way the names help to flesh out a world, and give it substance, history etc. I'm used to strange names and don't notice them. I agree with the last point above. I'm not sure about the first two points, but fantasy/SF writers could bear them in mind - why put people off unnecessarily? Minor points on the original article follow: In article <130@birtch.UUCP> oleg@birtch.UUCP (Oleg Kiselev x258) writes: >In his review of JHEREG by Stephen Brust Mark R. Leeper writes > >> Aside from the multiplicity of unfamiliar names--probably not a >> drawback for most other readers--the story is fairly well-written. I did, >> however, all too often come up confused as to who was who in the book and >> because of that, did not enjoy the book as much as I might have. > >Oh, poor you! I bet you put away Zelazny's "Lord of Light" after the first >few pages. And how often do you read historical books? Especially the ones >on times and lands quite remote. I am sure you've never read any of the >Russian great writers -- because you couldn't remember the names and places... >JHEREG does not sport an overwhelming cast of characters. Their names >are easily remembered and pronunciation is given. You're flaming here - obviously Mark didn't find them easy to remember. Just because you find something easy doesn't mean everybody else will. >Next time why don't you set up a list of names of characters you encounter >in a book and who they are and just give them plain English names (for your >own benefit) like "Joe", "Pete", etc. and think of everything in those terms. >And as long as we are at it why not replace magic with something else. Like >cabs instead of teleports... CPR instead of "raise dead" spell... >If the story doesn't make any sense after all these transformations -- >I guess it wasn't good enough to start with... Often I find this can be done. If the story does make sense after all the transformations, there is little point writing it as fantasy. I like my fantasy/SF to show how the magic/technology affects the characters/story. Obviously you & Mark disagree on whether Brust does this. PS. what is CPR? >As far as my opinion on Steven Brust's writing : > I think he is one of the finest new authors in fantasy/sf. JHEREG > (and its sequel YENDI) are enjoyable reading. His "To Reign in Hell" > was an exellent analysis of an old story and is a very pleasant book. I liked "To reign in hell". However, I don't regard it as an "analysis" of anything. It's a fun retelling of some biblical ideas, but that's all it is - good fun. For example, it ignores most of the old testament after from the creation story. -- Dave Berry. CS postgrad, Univ. of Edinburgh ...mcvax!ukc!{hwcs,kcl-cs}!cstvax!db
leeper@mtgzz.UUCP (m.r.leeper) (10/20/85)
I never got the original of this article, a number of articles have never reached our system due to a recent building move. The pieces I did get were from a good article posted by Dave Berry. >In his review of JHEREG by Stephen Brust Mark R. Leeper writes > >> Aside from the multiplicity of unfamiliar names--probably not a >> drawback for most other readers--the story is fairly well-written. I did, >> however, all too often come up confused as to who was who in the book and >> because of that, did not enjoy the book as much as I might have. > >Oh, poor you! I bet you put away Zelazny's "Lord of Light" after the first >few pages. No, I stuck with it. I didn't think it was all that good however -- admittedly a minority opinion. And what is bothering you? I said in the review exactly where I was coming from. You even quoted my saying that most readers would not have the same drawback that I had. You seem to be irritated that there exist readers who have problems remembering character names. >And how often do you read historical books? Especially the ones >on times and lands quite remote. Do you count DSITANT MIRROR by Barbara Tuchman? That was no problem reading. >I am sure you've never read any of the >Russian great writers -- because you couldn't remember the names and places... Do you count Gogol? How about Chekov? I like the former and don't care so much for the latter. Both are readable and did not cause the problems I had with the book in question. >JHEREG does not sport an overwhelming cast of characters. Their names >are easily remembered and pronunciation is given. >Next time why don't you set up a list of names of characters you encounter >in a book and who they are I do this fairly often actually. Particuarly if I am going to review the book later. >and just give them plain English names (for your >own benefit) like "Joe", "Pete", etc. and think of everything in those terms. Most people I know who read Russian novels a lot tend to abbreviate the long Russian names to the first sylable. Of course that doesn't help if a single character has three different names, as they sometimes do. >And as long as we are at it why not replace magic with something else. Like >cabs instead of teleports... CPR instead of "raise dead" spell... >If the story doesn't make any sense after all these transformations -- >I guess it wasn't good enough to start with... All to often, such a substitution wouldn't make much difference in the story. That's where space opera got its name. Oh, Dave. CPR is Cardio-pulmonary resuscitation, a sort of emergency first aid. The Red Cross and several local companies give classes in how to do it. Mark Leeper ...ihnp4!mtgzz!leeper