hutch (02/16/83)
I did not see the opriginal (Provoked to Jealousy) and so I will avoid arguing points that refer to it. However, to discuss the questions Aron raised here (his words are >>ed to the right): (1)What the words "the law is forever" mean is not at all clear to me. Both Christians and Jews seem to interpret this to fit their own views. All Christians and some Jews argue that the laws of animal sacrifice are no longer valid. Why not, if "the law is forever"? (2)Very few Jewish groups get rid of the notion of the Messiah. The question is who or what the Messiah is. You can't be Jewish and say he is Jesus (this was not true at the very beginnings of Christianity). The Christian basis for the notion is that the sacrifices of animals were "imperfect" and therefore they had to be repeated. The sacrifice of God's own Son, who was free of sin or the taint of sin, became the one perfect Sacrifice which IS forever. Therefore that law IS valid, but it is fulfilled. Animal sacrifices become an assertion that God's Sacrifice is imperfect, which is insulting to God and therefore blasphemous. Incidentally, it is the opinion of many Protestants that this also applies to the "penances" that the Catholic church requires after sins are confessed, since these seldom have anything to do with real restitution. You can deny everything and still be a Jew. It is only when you make certain affirmations (such as Jesus is the Son of God) that a Jew can no longer be called a Jew. (The sense meant here is being "outside" the Jewish community.) On the other hand to be a Christian you must make certain affirmations. You are no longer a Christian when you deny these affirmations. How about some comments on this statement as a basis for discussing the differences between Judaism and Christianity? Sure, you can continue to be a Jew even if you deny everything that makes it special to be a Jew. This is because of tribal notions. Some folks think that a person's ancestral and cultural heritage are the same thing. These people also seem to think that cultural heritage is a single, atomic and unique thing. I can go "pooh-pooh" at such Victorian notions, with the reservation that I must have some similarly ill-considered ideas of my own. Incidentally, not all Jews seem to think that faith in Jesus as the Messiah is particularly a denial of their cultural heritage. Some even have the gall to continue to claim to be Jewish. (Note the sarcasm. Christians have no monopoly on religious intolerance. -(Aron, this is not a personal slam)- ) I personally believe that Jewishness and the Jewish FAITH are two related but separate things, and similarly that being a Christian is different from the Christianishness that permeates the European societies. If Aron (or anyone else, for that meatter) wishes to discuss these differences, they will be misinterpreted less and inspire fewer rabid fundamentalist flames (like some I tend to emit in moments of decreased rationality) IF they label the specific racial/cultural notions as such, and indicate specifically when they are discussing religious ideas and matters of their Faith. Anyway, that's my own intended approach. Not afraid to stick my neck out, Steve Hutchison ...decvax!tektronix!tekmdp!dadla!hutch