[net.religion] Provoked to jealousy

bob (02/13/83)

It's hard to ignore scripture when so many people are living
fulfillments of its prophecy:

	They have roused Me to jealousy with a no-god;
	They have provoked Me with their vanities;
	And I will rouse them to jealousy with a no-people;
	I will provoke them with a vile nation.

That seems to describe the Jewish/Christian controversy of the last
2000 years, as distilled in this newsgroup.  This gem of a quote is
from neither the New Testament nor the prophets; it comes straight out
of Deuteronomy 32:21 (AJV).  A careful reading of this book strongly
implies that Moses did *NOT* leave loopholes like "in general," "when
applicable," "until reinterpreted," or "except when inexpedient."
Forever is a long time.  The man said the law was forever.

You have to work pretty hard to interpret the Messiah out of Judaism.
Only in the last hundred years have the rabbis nearly succeeded at this
venture.  I don't care for scripture-twisting to prove anyone's point:
it generates more heat than light.

TRB slid the crucial point right past the evangelicals: it is a
violation of the first commandment to worship another god!  I don't
comprehend the Trinity, but I am persuaded that Jesus Christ is not
Another God.  "Jews have never believed..." isn't really an answer,
is it?

-- bob hofkin (...!ucbvax!sdcsvax!bob)

aron (02/14/83)

(1)What the words "the law is forever" mean is not at all clear to
me.  Both Christians and Jews seem to interpret this to fit their
own views.  All Christians and some Jews argue that the laws of
animal sacrifice are no longer valid.  Why not, if "the law is forever"?
(2)Very few Jewish groups get rid of the notion of the Messiah.  The
question is who or what the Messiah is.  You can't be Jewish and say
he is Jesus (this was not true at the very beginnings of Christianity).

As a change of pace, here's something to think about.
Someone once explained the difference between Judaism and Christianity
as follows:

You can deny everything and still be a Jew.  It is only when you make
certain affirmations (such as Jesus is the Son of God) that a Jew
can no longer be called a Jew*.  On the other hand to be a Christian
you must make certain affirmations.  You are no longer a Christian
when you deny these affirmations.

How about some comments on this statement as a basis for discussing the
differences between Judaism and Christianity?

					aron shtull-trauring

*this is not true in the strictly legal(Jewish) sense.  Once a Jew
always a Jew for the purposes of Jewish law.  The sense meant here is
being "outside" the Jewish community.

nixon (02/20/83)

The first followers of Yeshua (Hebrew for salvation) were Jewish,
lived in the land of Israel, read the Hebrew scriptures, and
worshipped in the Temple in Jerusalem.
They certainly AFFIRMED continuity with the Jewish faith.

Someone else asked whether another messiah could appear in (say) the
25th century.  There are several reasons why the Messiah should
appear before the destuction of the Second Temple in the year 70;
see for instance Daniel 9, as well as Genesis 49:10.
Also, the lineage of the Messiah is given in several prophecies --
a 25th century messiah would have difficulty asserting his claim,
since the genealogical records were destroyed with the Temple.
Brian Nixon.