[net.religion] Prophecies re Israel

nixon (03/23/83)

It is interesting to consider some prophecies related to the Jewish
people and the land of Israel.  By way of background, Jerusalem was destroyed
in the year 70; Jewish people were then dispersed and persecuted;
in the last hundred years, many have moved to the land of Israel,
and cultivated the land; there has also been warfare and international
condemnation.
The following seem to be starting to be fulfilled in our lifetime:
	Ezekiel chapter 36
	Amos 9:13-15, Isaiah 35:1
	Zechariah 12:2-3
Brian Nixon.

tim (03/24/83)

Looks like saying something once isn't enough. If you've read this
before, skip it. The Biblical prophecies concerning Israel are being
deliberately fulfilled today. The nation of Israel was created after
WWII as a gift to the Jewish people in fulfillment of the prophecies.
There is no reason to assume that there is any "magic" whatsoever in
the prophecies; they are self-fulfilling. If they were lost, came true,
and then were dug up, that would show something. As it is, it's a
totally mundane process that lends no credence to the Bible.

Tim Maroney

cfiaime (03/25/83)

The prophecies concerning Israel were given at least 200 years 
before the birth of Christ.  These prophecies *are* being
fulfilled, no matter what the motive in fulfilling them.  If
the prophecies are to be valid as prophecies, they *MUST* be 
fulfilled.  Ezekiel, Amos and Zechariah had no knowledge of the
politics of 20th century earth.  All they did was tell what 
would happen.  If it happens, the prophecies are true.

It seems to me that a self-fulfilling prophecy is one where
the prophet is controlling the outcome in some degree.  Ezekiel,
Amos and Zechariah have been dead for a few years (at least),
so have no hand in the final outcome of their writings.

Mr. Tim Maroney, I believe (note:  opinion) that you are slightly
biased agains't Mr. Brian Nixon's attitude towards Biblical 
prophecy.

Jeff Williams
BTL/Naperville
ihuxa!cfiaime

tim (03/27/83)

Mr. Jeff Williams, you are (deliberately?) missing my point.
I am not saying that the prophecies aren't coming true. I'm
saying that the fact that they are coming true is no evidence
for prophetic accuracy on the part of Ezekiel, et. al. The
people who created Israel, and the people who are maintaining
it, are deliberately causing the words they have read in the
Bible to come true. How much more clearly can I put this?

Example: I have a vision that a penny will fall to the floor
in this room in the next five minutes. This is the Word of God,
so I do everything in my power to fulfill it by dropping a penny.
There, I just did it. It came true. Is this any evidence of
my prophetic powers?

Tim Maroney

bis (03/29/83)

	Once again: a self-fulfilling prophecy is one that *causes*
the prophecied event to come to pass.  A true (read legitimately
fulfilled) prophecy is one that comes to pass independently of the
prophecy itself.  No foreknowledge on the part of the prophet is
necessary if there are those who, knowing the prophecy, take steps
to make it come true.  I can't make it much clearer than that.

		Andrew Shaw
		BTLHO x4715
		houxm!hocpc!ams	(possible)
		houxq!bis	(possible)