nixon (03/23/83)
It is interesting to consider some prophecies related to the Jewish people and the land of Israel. By way of background, Jerusalem was destroyed in the year 70; Jewish people were then dispersed and persecuted; in the last hundred years, many have moved to the land of Israel, and cultivated the land; there has also been warfare and international condemnation. The following seem to be starting to be fulfilled in our lifetime: Ezekiel chapter 36 Amos 9:13-15, Isaiah 35:1 Zechariah 12:2-3 Brian Nixon.
tim (03/24/83)
Looks like saying something once isn't enough. If you've read this before, skip it. The Biblical prophecies concerning Israel are being deliberately fulfilled today. The nation of Israel was created after WWII as a gift to the Jewish people in fulfillment of the prophecies. There is no reason to assume that there is any "magic" whatsoever in the prophecies; they are self-fulfilling. If they were lost, came true, and then were dug up, that would show something. As it is, it's a totally mundane process that lends no credence to the Bible. Tim Maroney
cfiaime (03/25/83)
The prophecies concerning Israel were given at least 200 years before the birth of Christ. These prophecies *are* being fulfilled, no matter what the motive in fulfilling them. If the prophecies are to be valid as prophecies, they *MUST* be fulfilled. Ezekiel, Amos and Zechariah had no knowledge of the politics of 20th century earth. All they did was tell what would happen. If it happens, the prophecies are true. It seems to me that a self-fulfilling prophecy is one where the prophet is controlling the outcome in some degree. Ezekiel, Amos and Zechariah have been dead for a few years (at least), so have no hand in the final outcome of their writings. Mr. Tim Maroney, I believe (note: opinion) that you are slightly biased agains't Mr. Brian Nixon's attitude towards Biblical prophecy. Jeff Williams BTL/Naperville ihuxa!cfiaime
tim (03/27/83)
Mr. Jeff Williams, you are (deliberately?) missing my point. I am not saying that the prophecies aren't coming true. I'm saying that the fact that they are coming true is no evidence for prophetic accuracy on the part of Ezekiel, et. al. The people who created Israel, and the people who are maintaining it, are deliberately causing the words they have read in the Bible to come true. How much more clearly can I put this? Example: I have a vision that a penny will fall to the floor in this room in the next five minutes. This is the Word of God, so I do everything in my power to fulfill it by dropping a penny. There, I just did it. It came true. Is this any evidence of my prophetic powers? Tim Maroney
bis (03/29/83)
Once again: a self-fulfilling prophecy is one that *causes* the prophecied event to come to pass. A true (read legitimately fulfilled) prophecy is one that comes to pass independently of the prophecy itself. No foreknowledge on the part of the prophet is necessary if there are those who, knowing the prophecy, take steps to make it come true. I can't make it much clearer than that. Andrew Shaw BTLHO x4715 houxm!hocpc!ams (possible) houxq!bis (possible)