greg (04/02/83)
#N:zehntel:19200006:000:1097 zehntel!greg Mar 30 17:58:00 1983 There seems to be enough interest in these references to post them to the net. McDowell gives at least one quote per reference; if you're interested in what he quotes, you should be able to find his book at almost any Christian book- store. From "evidence that demands a verdict, vol 1", pp 84-88: 1. Cornelius Tacitus, Annals XV.44 2. Lucian, The Passing Peregruis 3. Flavius Josephus, Antiquities xviii.33, XX 9:1 4. Suetonius, Life of Claudius 25.4, Lives of the Caesars 26.2 5. Plinius Secundus, Epistles X.96 6. Tertullian, Apology V.2 7. Thallus, known only by references in other works, e.g. Julius Africanus 8. Mara Bar-Serapion, in a letter to his son (quoted from "The New Testament Documents: Are They Reliable" by F. F. Bruce) 9. Justin Martyr, Apology I.48 10. The Talmuds: Babylonian Sanhedrin 43a, The Amoa 'Ulla', Yeb. IV 3; 49a I didn't mean to start a controversy about the contents of these writings; I'm merely responding to the claim that there are NO historical references to Jesus outside of those contained in the Bible. Greg Boyd ...decvax!sytek!zehntel!greg
hss (04/05/83)
#R:zehntel:19200006:sri-unix:15700011:000:737 sri-unix!hss Apr 4 13:34:00 1983 In the interest of informed debate, it should be noted that Justin Martyr and Tertullian were both noted Christian apologists. They were not exactly unbiased historians. In addition, I find it odd that Tactitus, (a noted historian who seems to have hated Tiberius Caesar with a passion) and Seutonius (who loved gossip) could have missed Justin's and Tertullian's juicy tale about how Tiberius Caesar was impressed by the story of Christ. Besides, Seutonius tells us that Tiberius was not a religious man. The other early references to Jesus can be easily debunked if you go beyond Josh McDowell and do a little research in the library. Unfortunately, that seems to be something beyond most of McDowell's readers. Harry Sameshima