mikec (05/07/83)
(From dadla-b!random) :
"There was more noises on creationism/evolutionism. Has
anyone wondered about the implications of the existence
of Noah's Ark on Mount Ararat? Seems that if it was ever
found, there would be several problems in many peoples
theology to be reckoned with. One would be the concept
that the book of Genesis is symbolic, inaccurate, or in
one form or another, a bunch of fairytales. ...... Any
comments?" Note: I have not bothered to flag the errors.
RESPONSE :
Well, now that you've mentioned it, I do have a few very minor
comments about both Genesis creation myths; including Noah's Ark.
If the reaction to finding Noah's Ark worries you then just think
about what would happen if evidence for the Tooth Fairy is found!
The origins of the Biblical Deluge and Noah's Ark myths have been
known for quite a long time now (at least among literate people).
The Babylonian flood story has been known to Western scholars for
over five centuries through Greek fragments of the records of the
Babylonian historian Berosus (nineteenth century discoveries have
allowed a complete recovery). Between 1848 and 1876, Austen Henry
Layard (British Museum archaeologist) discovered several thousand
tablets in excavations at Nineveh of the library of the Assyrian
king Ashurbanipal (668 to 626 BCE). While many of the cuneiform
tablets were distroyed by flames, water, and ransacking hoodlums,
laboriously painstaking effort resulted in the reconstruction of
the famous Gilgamesh epic in twelve cantos. The eleventh tablet
contains the Babylonian version of the universal deluge (the
twelve cantos seem to represent the twelve signs of the zodiac).
On December 3, 1872, George Smith (British Museum archaeologist)
presented his very important discovery to the Society of Biblical
Archaeology and in 1876, he published a book titled "The Chaldean
Account of Genesis", which showed the close relationship with the
opening chapter of Genesis. The Mesopotamian creation myth was in
use in the New Year ritual at the shrine of Marduk in Babylon as
early as the time of Hammurabi (1723 to 1686 BCE). The Turkish
Government excavated a tablet at Abu-Habbah (the ancient city of
Sippar) which contains a version of the flood story complete with
the great deluge and a large ship (built by Atrakhasis) by which
people are to be saved. The tablet is dated the twenty-eighth day
of the eleventh Babylonian month in the eleventh year of the king
Ammizaduga (about 1966 BCE). Professor H.V. Hilprecht (University
of Pennsylvania) discovered a tablet fragment in the excavations
at Nippur that is no more recent than 2100 BCE. In this tablet, a
god tells someone to build a great ship to save themself and the
beasts of the field and the birds of heaven since he will cause a
deluge which will kill all life on earth. The Babylonian creation
myth is about 1,200 years older than the Hebrew creation myth and
the Sumerian (pre 3000 BCE) creation myth predates the Babylonian
version by over one thousand years. The most obvious civilization
sequence, according to Biblical scholars (except fundamentalist),
is from the Sumerians to the Babylonians and then to the Hebrews.
Some of the fundamentalists (Morris) have tried to claim that the
Hebrew version is completely different from any earlier versions.
I find it quite interesting that people with such very carefully
trained minds (and eyes) are never able to see any of the several
thousand known errors and absurdities in their Bible and yet they
seem to be able to locate even the most minute difference between
their favorite myth and the myths of much earlier civilizations.
The different versions are much more than superficially similar.
If sufficient interest is shown, I will fully expand upon these
similarities in a future essay (approximately 200...300 lines).
(From dadla-b!random) :
"The main reason that the ark has not been found is due to the
location of mount Ararat being so close to the Russian border."
RESPONSE :
There have only been some forty different organized expeditions
to search for Noah's Ark since World War II. Since 1970, at least
eleven books and three movies have been made about the search for
this ever elusive object (just like fairies). But those seemingly
ever-credulous Fundamentalist Christians keep searching for that
mythical box anyway (note that ark means "box" or "chest"). Then
there is the minor fact that Mount Ararat (Agri Dagi) is the most
recent of no less than nine different "final" resting places for
Noah's Ark (and the least likely of all). The Holy Arkeologists'
basic idea seems to be that if Noah's Ark is found then evolution
will be proved totally wrong. They ignore the little things like
where all that water came from and where it went afterward. Also,
how did Noah save all the different human diseases and parasites?
How did giant earthworms make the trip to Austrailia and how did
the marsupials get to Austrailia? Did Noah save any dinosaurs or
plants? One of the Biblical flood myths claims that the earth was
completely submerged for 365 days; long enough to kill off all of
the (land) plant life. There are between 2,000,000 to 10,000,000
different animal species (over 15,000 different mammals) and over
250,000 different plant species on the earth. Has anyone bothered
to calculate just how big of a box is required to hold all of the
species (including food for the same) that survived the "flood"?
This is just a partial list of the formidable problems that the
Arkeologists (creationists) have to overcome. Then they have to
prove several of the sciences completely wrong. Evolution is the
very foundation of Physical Anthropology, Cosmology, and Biology,
to name but a few. Evolution is a basic component of Linguistics,
Cultural Anthropology, Archaeology, and several other branches of
modern science as well. But then no problem is too big for FAITH.
The list of Arkeologists is quite long (I will only cover a few).
Some of the more visible Arkeologists these days includes Kelly
Segraves, John D. Morris, and James Irwin. John D. Morris is the
son of Henry Morris (and who says that there is no evidence that
insanity is hereditary?). Morris has written two really wonderful
comic books titled "Adventure on Ararat" and "The Ark on Ararat".
While the Morris expedition claimed several "sightings" of the
Ark, they returned with exactly zero (what a surprise). The ICR
started these expeditions in 1971 and has yet to show anything
in the way of scientific evidence (would you believe : a copy of
Noah's left rubber-boot footprint?). One of the funniest claims
made by the ICR about their expedition was "Exciting adventure,
danger, miraculous protection" (from what, themselves?). A member
of the ICR has rationalized the whole failure with "the Lord will
reveal the Ark at a time of His own choosing" (very convenient).
Then there is that Forever Fogbound Fundamentalist : James Irwin.
Poor old Irwin has the misfortune to be a fundamentalist Baptist.
Irwin's expedition was funded by an evangelical Christian group
named "High Flight" (honest!) that is based in Colorado Springs.
Like all Arkeologists, James is certain that the Ark is up there
somewhere. It seems that Satan tripped Irwin while he was on the
slopes of Ararat causing him to "falleth mightly upon his head".
This change in attitude persuaded James to leave three teeth (and
rumor has it, several marbles) permanently imbedded in Ararat as
yet another Monument to Christian Faith. Believe it or not, just
as soon as he was released from the hospital, Irwin claimed that
he wanted to get right back to that mountain (definitely one of
your slower learners). Now he is planning to search Ararat with
a helicopter to narrow down the location (why didn't he think of
that before trying to explore the entire mountain by foot?). The
Forever Fogbound (Forever Faithful) will probably still be trying
to find evidence for Noah's Big Boat in the twenty-third century.
James Irwin is not the only ex-astronaut turned Real Space-Cadet.
For example, Gordon Cooper appeared on the Merv Griffin show on
April 10,1978 (I happened to see that particular episode). Cooper
has become one of the Wheels of the UFO movement. His "for real"
claims were (1) "I think that we're going to see some significant
propulsion breakthroughs in the next short number of years that
hopefully will get us to Mars in an hour, hour and a half, two
hours.", (2) "The speed of light is 180,000 (186,283) miles per
second, roughly, more or less. And ten times the twenty-fifth
power times that speed should be a practical capability of speed
in space." (about 6,706,188,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
miles per hour), (3) "I'm not sure that this civilization we have
now is necessarily the most advanced civilization we've had on
this world." (Cooper and Von Daniken should get married), (4) The
U.S. government has in its possession a crashed flying saucer and
the bodies of the creatures that flew it, is a "fairly credible"
story (make that a three way marriage with J. Allen Hynek). While
Gordon Cooper may seem to be a rather advanced basket case to the
casual observer, he has found his little niche in life. He is now
working for Walt Disney Enterprises (they know a good fairy tale
teller when they hear one). Edgar Mitchel is another Real Space-
Cadet. He has endorsed Uri Geller's psychic powers as "real" and
even financed Geller's trip to the United States. He also claimed
that Ted Serios (a Chicago bellhop) could project mental pictures
onto Polaroid film (two magicians exposed this trick). Mitchell
appeared on the Stanley Seigel TV show on December 30,1977. Edgar
said that UFOs are probably extraterrestrial and that they might
be here to aid humanity (with humor, no doubt). He also said that
he was a "religious" man. Mitchell now runs his own organization
devoted to "investigating" the paranormal. The name of this group
might be "The Institute for Noetic Sciences" (I couldn't find any
references; this is totally from memory).
In the event that any readers are not familier with elementary
physics, I will now show why Gordon Cooper's #(1) claim is quite
absurd. The closest distance between the Earth and Mars is about
78,390,000,000 meters. If constant acceleration is used for the
first half of the distance (and constant deceleration for the
second half), then the maximum acceleration that the occupants
must experience is minimized. If the total one-way trip time is
one hour, then the average acceleration (and deceleration) is
about 24,194 meters per second squared. The force of gravity (one
"G") is about 9.8 meters per second squared. Thus even if we were
able to develop an advanced form of propulsion, our poor space
traveler would be subjected to about 2,469 "G" of acceleration.
A 150 pound person would "weight" 370,323 pounds and most likely
would not be recognizable as a (former) member of the human race.
This is roughly equivalent to stopping from a speed of 275 miles
per hour in one tenth of a second a total of 36,000 times (ouch).
Any volunteers should contact Gordon Cooper directly (via Mars).
Note that subjective time is less than one hour at 14.5% of the
speed of light (you know how time just flies when you are being
crushed to death). I leave the proofs of Cooper's other idiotic
claims to anyone who is in the category of "recursively bemused".
(From dadla-b!random) :
"Personally, I think God will reveal the ark before His return."
RESPONSE :
Except for the total lack of any evidence that God ever came to
the earth the "first" time, we are in total agreement. In fact, I
think that God will also probably reveal the "Pot of Gold" at the
End of the Rainbow, the Tooth Fairy and Tinkerbelle, the precise
location of Jack's Beanstalk, the Hole at the North Pole, where
all the Dragons are currently hiding, and the Large Spring (that
He winds up from time to time) that keeps his followers Babbling.
Babble is quite consistent with the second law of thermodynamics.
I doubt that God will "reveal" the errors of evolution, since He
doesn't seem to know anything about that topic (or any science).
REFERENCES :
the Skeptical Inquirer Volume III Number 2 Winter 1978
Cooper's ravings are on page 12
the Skeptical Inquirer Volume III Number 4 Summer 1979
Review of LLoyd Bailey's book on Noah's Ark (pages 61..63)
This book is a very good investment (hell, it's only $1.95)
A Survey of Creationist Field Research by Henry P. Zuidema
Creation/Evolution Issue VI Fall 1981
Science 81 December 1981 The Creationists (4 articles)
1) Creationism as a Social Movement by John Skow.
2) Creationism as Science by Allen Hammond & Lynn Margulis.
3) The impact on education: an update.
4) What do the creationists say? pages 53..60
Six "Flood" Arguments Creationists Can't Answer by Robert J.
Schadewald Creation/Evolution Issue IX Summer 1982
Arkeology : A New Science in Support of Creation? by Robert A.
Moore Creation/Evolution Issue VI Fall 1981
Science Good, Bad and Bogus by Martin Gardner 1981 Prometheus
Some of Edgar Mitchell's blunders are on pages 92, 290, and 357
Folklore in the Old Testament by James George Frazer 1975 Hart
This is an extraction about the Old Testament from Sir Frazer's
classic twenty volume work "The Golden Bough". Frazer is one of
the greatest names in anthropological literature. Pages 46..143
Where is Noah's Ark? by LLoyd R. Bailey 1978 Festival paperback
LLoyd Bailey is an associate professor of Old Testament Studies
In The Beginning... Science Faces God in The Book of Genesis
by Isaac (Atheist) Asimov 1981 Stonesong Press Pages 151..188
Primal Myths Creating The World by Barbara C. Sproul 1979
Harper & Row pages 91..135 Sproul is Director of Religion
at Hunter College of the City University of New York.
Free Inquiry Science, the Bible, and Darwin Summer 1982
Volume 2 number 3. Creationism: 500 Years of Controversy
by Gerald Larue pages 9..14 Professor Larue is emeritus
professor of archaeology and biblical history (University
of Southern California, Los Angeles). And Geology and
the Bible by Charles Cazeau pages 32..34 Charles Cazeau
is professor of geology (State University of New York at
Buffalo).
Genesis vs. Geology by Stephen Jay Gould The Atlantic
September 1982 pages 10..17 (previously mentioned by
Jerry Leichter at Yale). Gould is one of the co-authors
of "Punctuated Equilibria" (Nyles Eldridge is the other).
I have most of Gould's books and they are VERY readable. I
recommend reading : 1) "Ever Since Darwin : Reflections in
Natural History" 1973 W.W. Norton
2) "The Panda's Thumb : More Reflections
in Natural History" 1980 W.W. Norton
3) "The Mismeasure of Man" 1981 W.W.Norton
Gould has just published another book "Hens' Teeth and Horses'
Toes". I do not have a copy (yet) but I would consider the
risk of buying a copy very small (based on past experience).
Gould is one of the most brilliant authors about evolutionary
biology and was the winner of the 1981 American Book Award for
Science with "The Panda's Thumb". (Is my enthusiasm showing?)
He is also a frequent contributer to Natural History magazine.
Also see almost any contemporary non-religious encyclopedia
under "Biblical Criticism", "Exegesis", "Higher Criticism",
"Lower Criticism", "Flood, The", "Creation, The Story of",
"Gilgamesh", and "Ut-Napishtim".
The early Christians found a fairly foolproof method of dealing
with non-believers. Pretend that Noah's Ark was fact and then use
it as evidence to prove some other myth absolutely honestly true.
"Do you seriously suppose that we are unable to prove
our point, when even to this day the remains of Noah's
ark are shown in the country of the Kurds?"
Bishop Epiphanius of Salamis (315..403 CE)
Learning to swim, just in case (Hmm ... it looks like rain).
Micheal D. Cranford
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