jonw@tekmdp.UUCP (05/24/83)
Well, we seem to have a minor disagreement going on here. First, let's hear
from Hutch:
First gripe: Jon scoffs the Christians who claim salvation from any
given problem, but doesn't explain WHY he takes issue.
Sorry, I thought this was so self evident that I didn't want to belabor the
point. Obviously, if I seriously doubt the existence of a personal god, I'm
going to seriously doubt claims of salvation or other miraculous benefits
from said god. Remember, the burden of proof is on you, not me.
...physical salvation from drowning is no more palpable than spiritual
salvation, and suffering and misery have no more ready measurement than
does God, but I doubt Jon will deny thay [sic] exist.
Maybe I don't understand you. Are you really saying that we cannot FEEL
any more effect from a drowning rescue than from spiritual salvation?
I doubt that many drowning victims would agree. Suffering and misery cannot
be accurately measured (although the effects of a near-fatal drowning can),
but at least they can be observed. When is the last time that you saw your
god?
Finally, as for superstition: I base my beliefs on historical evidence
as well as subjective evidence.
I think that it goes almost without saying, that it is possible to "prove"
anything if your standards of proof are sufficiently loose. Can anyone
explain why belief in an unprovable god (or refrigerator-raiding munchkins)
is not superstition?
Realistically, if there IS a God and there IS an adversary (devil, Satan,
or whatever you want to call him) then someone who ignores them out of
hand is not only living "unrealistically" but is behaving VERY foolishly
Yeah, right. Realistically, if there IS a Santa Claus and there IS a tooth
fairy, then we had all better mind our parents and brush our teeth. The
point is, life is complicated enough without my having to prepare for every
conceivable condition that someone says might exist. For example, there are
literally thousands of religions out there from which I can choose. If I
decide to become a Mormon, the born agains will say that I belong to an
apostate church. If I become a Jew, the southern Baptists say that God will
not listen to me. If I become a right-wing fundamentalist, the Episcopalians
(and virtually anyone else with any brains) will think that I'm ignorant and
reactionary. I could go on and on, but I think you get the point. Maybe you
should reread Jeff Mayhew's excellent "Taking the Plunge I/II."
Molotov cocktail in hand,
Jon White
Tektronix
Aloha, Ore