madrid@auvax.UUCP (06/21/83)
This is in response to an earlier (laudably open-minded) request.
To paraphrase Mother Teresa: "If the child in its mother's womb is
not safe from harm, which of us is?rh@mit-eddi.UUCP (Randy Haskins) (06/27/83)
***********
This is in response to an earlier (laudably open-minded) request.
To paraphrase Mother Teresa: "If the child in its mother's womb is
not safe from harm, which of us is?
***********
The answer is, that none of us are safe from anything. The
world is not a safe place. The desperate need in the human
mind for safety has caused the creation of religions that teach
that at least the afterlife will be safe. It sounds boring
to me; so while I believe in an afterlife, I hope it isn't
like a ideal womb.
Randysilver@csu-cs.UUCP (06/28/83)
This is in RE-response to an earlier (laudably open-minded) STATEMENT. To paraphrase a generally rational sentiment: "If you can arbitrarily define a fetus in the womb as a child, then whose freedoms among ours is safe?" I'll go further than just retort, and remind you (briefly) of one rational argument FOR freedom of abortion: Humans differ from other animals primarily by their intellectual ability. The fetal brain really starts to be human at about the sixth month of gestation. Before this time a fetus may LOOK human but, by one very unarguable measurement, it is NOT yet human, only potentially so -- the same as an unfertile egg. Considering the violent differences of opinion in this debate, both sides must be willing to compromise rationally, looking at the evidence.
liz@umcp-cs.UUCP (06/30/83)
From csu-cs!silver To paraphrase a generally rational sentiment: "If you can arbitrarily define a fetus in the womb as a child, then whose freedoms among ours is safe?" I think more freedoms are risked by defining a fetus as not entirely human -- it narrows the definition of what is human. For example, there is a proposal to allow infanticide in the cases of infants up to three days old with birth defects (not just withhold life support). Another form of this proposal would require all infants to pass some kind of test. Where will you draw the line on what is truly human? I'll go further than just retort, and remind you (briefly) of one rational argument FOR freedom of abortion: Humans differ from other animals primarily by their intellectual ability. The fetal brain really starts to be human at about the sixth month of gestation. Humans may differ >primarly< by their intellectual ability, but I wouldn't want to define them this way. It is too easy to start marking the mentally retarded and the senile as non-human. ... Before this time a fetus may LOOK human but, by one very unarguable measurement, it is NOT yet human, only potentially so -- the same as an unfertile egg. No, not really the same. Uninterupted (by disease or abortion), the fetus will grow into a human child. An unfertile egg cannot grow without outside help (fertilization). Considering the violent differences of opinion in this debate, both sides must be willing to compromise rationally, looking at the evidence. But on the pro-life side, abortion is viewed as killing. It is hard to view that a person has the right to kill anything human... On the other hand, being pro-life should also include being for the life of the woman. A woman considering an abortion is in a difficult situation, and her needs must not be overlooked. Being pro-life must mean considering her life as well (though not at the expense of the life of her baby). -Liz PS I'm probably stiring up a hornet's nest...
tim@unc.UUCP (07/01/83)
I must be crazy to do this. No one has ever changed their mind on
abortion because of reasoned arguments, and all I'm doing is
furthering a pointless argument that has the potential to monopolize
the group. Nonetheless, here is my reason for believing that the
Supreme Court rulings on abortion are morally correct.
A fetus MAY BE human. A woman IS human. There can be no
justification for restricting the rights of the KNOWN human because of
the hypothetical rights of the fetus.
======================================
The overworked keyboard of Tim Maroney
duke!unc!tim (USENET)
tim.unc@udel-relay (ARPA)
The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hillgovern@houxf.UUCP (07/01/83)
A recent quote by ....!silver said that a fetus is not human until the brain starts functioning, which doesn't occur until the sixth month of pregnancy; that until then the fetus is not human - more like a fertilized egg. The newspapers have recently been talking about a woman whose baby, according to ...!silver, won't be human for another couple weeks. 22 weeks is kind of short for a pregnancy, but the kid is just as human as any other premature baby. Bill Stewart
rcj1@ihuxi.UUCP (07/06/83)
You mean to tell me that if a human's brain activity ceases he no longer qualifies as a human???? And another thing, the next time your in Chicago stop by the Museum of Science and Industry and look up the baby exhibit. It consists of young fetus' individually cased in some sort of liquid preserver. The age of these fetuses range from a few weeks old to 8 months. Its remarkable how much a few weeks old fetus looks human!!!!. If women were told of the alternatives to abortion, maybe there wouldn't be as many.. Any way you look at it its murder in my book....... Ray Jender ihuxi!rcj1 P.S. Of course if you seen your own child born right in front of you you'd probably agree...
alb@alice.UUCP (07/07/83)
``If women were told of the alternatives to abortion, maybe there wouldn't be as many.'' It's a shame you don't share the same compassion you have for the unborn with the poor people who have to go through this. Have you ever actually seen an abortion? Have you seen what the women go through? Once I even saw a teenage girl shown pictures of an abortion by some right-to-life evangelist (I am not labelling all anti-abortionists evangelists); it was the cruelist thing I ever saw: Here's this mixed up kid being fed on by a preacher trying to shove his will into her, not even giving her the opportunity to express her feelings. This is the main difference between pro- and anti-abortionists: The pro's don't tell people they MUST get abortions, they merely want the right for themselves; the anti's tell people they MUSTN'T get abortions, no matter WHAT their philosophical views. As for brain activity being the meter of life: There is a difference between being a human being in form and being a living person. I merely said that I consider a person dead when his/her brain is dead. This also happens to be the current medical definition of death.
brad@umcp-cs.UUCP (07/09/83)
From: rcj1@ihuxi.UUCP Subject: Against abortion Date: Wed, 6-Jul-83 17:01:26 EDT You mean to tell me that if a human's brain activity ceases he no longer qualifies as a human???? Exactly! That is the current definition of death in medical circles. I'm not sure why you have such a hard time believing this. It seems to me that if the brain is gone there isn't much of a person left and that the only reason the body keeps on fuctioning for any length of time is that some form of artifical life support is used. I've never heard of anyone being revived after "brain death", but I'd like to hear if you have any sources. And another thing, the next time your in Chicago stop by the Museum of Science and Industry and look up the baby exhibit. It consists of young fetus' individually cased in some sort of liquid preserver. The age of these fetuses range from a few weeks old to 8 months. Its remarkable how much a few weeks old fetus looks human!!!!. It's also amazing how much the fetus doesn't resemble a human. What about the tail and gills that the fetus poseses for much (a relative term I'll admit) of its development. Saying a fetus looks remarkably human is just a ploy for emotional sympathy and smacks of cheap theatrics. Its also easy to say that a fetus looks remarkably like a lot of other creatures. If women were told of the alternatives to abortion, maybe there wouldn't be as many.. Possibly, but its my gut feeling that most women having abortions know of the alternatives such as adoption or raising the child, but each has decided that abortion as the best alternative in her situation. I would be interested in any statistics that anyone could provide on this. b**2 (Brad Balfour) umcp-cs!brad