johnr@tekmdp.UUCP (John Rutis) (07/08/83)
I don't like to see the beliefs of any religion misrepresented. If you want to know what a religion believes, go to that religion - don't ask their enemies or even someone neutral. AFTER you have found out what that religion states as its beliefs, you can ask others to comment on their OPINIONS about those beliefs. That is the only fair way! I am a member of the Worldwide Church of God and I have seen our religion grossly misrepresented many times. I can only assume that other religious groups are likewise misrepresented by others. I have certainly seen others misrepresented on this net. Now I see my church misrepresented. (I don't want to imply evil intent, just mistakes and misunderstandings are bad enough if others believe them.) If you want to know what we believe on any subject, please write; we send FREE booklets and reprint articles on ANY subject. I mean FREE. The circulation of the free PLAIN TRUTH magazine is over 5,000,000. We send millions of pieces of free literature every year. We never ask the general public (including subscribers) for money. There is NEVER any followup asking you to join, believe, or give. There is nothing in the magazine or other literature asking you to join, believe, or give. The address is: Herbert W. Armstrong Pasadena, Calif 91123 Or you can call 1-800-423-4444 toll free. If you still don't like the idea of being on someones mailing list (it's never given or sold to anyone), you can ask me. I will try to answer any questions, but I won't guarantee how quick I might be. John Rutis
johnr@tekmdp.UUCP (John Rutis) (07/19/83)
As a member of the Worldwide Church of God, I have been wanting to comment on the following comments someone made on the net about our Church. I don't have much time to write in these newsgroups but I like to try once in a while. I don't want to imply in any way that the writer of these comments had evil intent. He was just mistaken on some points. -------------------- HWA and Garner Ted had a major falling out about 2 years ago, partly for personality reasons, partly because of the emotional stress of having the State of California take over their financial affairs. NO, Garner Ted Armstrong was disfellowshipped BEFORE the State of California illegally took over the church. He was NOT disfellowshipped for personality conflicts or emotional stress. He was disfellowshipped for immoral conduct and attempting to subvert God's laws among the general membership of the church. (I'll comment below on the takeover.) Garner Ted has moved to Texas or Arizona, and started his own church and such; Herbert took over the "World Tomorrow" radio show and the "Plain Truth" magazine; I don't know who got Ambassador College. Garner Ted went to Tyler Texas, where he started the International Church of God. He got NO part of the Church of GOD; it doesn't belong to any man. Herbert W. Armstrong did NOT "take over" anything. He is God's Apostle, is now, and has been, the physical head of the Church since this era of the Church began. It does not belong to him; it belongs to God, Christ is the ultimate haed of the Church. Their theology is distinctly different from what Protestants or Catholics would consider "orthodox"; among other things they teach that the "Holy Spirit" doesn't count as a separate form of God (--> no Trinity), strict adherence to dietary laws and other Old Testament-based legalism (different from Jewish interpretations of the Law), triple tithing, Saturday Sabbath (which makes a lot of sense, if you're going to observe sabbath customs). We don't believe in the "Trinity"; there is no evidence for the Holy Spirit being a person. In fact, there are some great difficulties if it were a person. As one example: Mary was "... found with child of the Holy Spirit." (Mt 1:18) Therefore, if the Holy Spirit was a person, it was Christ's father. How could the Holy Spirit be Christ's father if the Father is His Father?!! We don't eat unclean meats; neither do we follow the strict Jewish dietary laws or traditions. We follow the Bible teaching, no more, no less. We follow all the Old Testament laws that are applicable in this age and society except the sacrificial laws, which Christ's death made unnecessary. We tithe to the church. We save a second tithe to spend at the annual Fall Feast. (How would you like to have 10% of your income to spend each year on a vacation with no bills to haunt you afterward? It's great!) The third and sixth years in a cycle of seven years we give a third tithe to care for the widows and other needy of the Church. These tithes are not a burden but a great blessing. We keep the Sabbath; God has commanded no other day. Their view of God's grace is "follow the Law perfectly, or else!", but that He might give you a break if you follow it pretty well and belong to the right church. This is bizarre! God's grace is undeserve pardon of all your past sins. We believe in obeying God's ten commandments as expanded in the whole Bible. We know we can't do that perfectly in this life, but we have Christ as our perfect sacrifice forever, so that when we sin, we may be forgiven upon confession to God and repentance. They also get into the bizarre on occasion; listening to HWA talk about healthy eating made me think some of the wierder heath-food people are rational. Sometimes HWA shows good common sense, even if I disagree with his theology; sometimes he's just plain off the wall. I don't know what this is referring to. I have been in the Church 15 years. I've read many articles by Mr. Armstrong and others concerning healthy eating. The following is my summary of all I've been taught: o Don't eat unclean meats. o Eat a good balanced diet of wholesome natural foods. o Don't get into weird food fads. I'd call that good common sense. The British-Israelite theory basically says that after the Babylonian captivity (Assyrian?) the northern 10 tribes of Israel got lost, headed up to Europe, acquired blond hair & blue eyes, and became the Anglo-Saxons. Aside from the general oddness of this idea, there are New Testament references to members of the tribe of Asher (one of the "lost tribes"), and the name Cohen is (I think) associated with another tribe. Somehow, it's a fundamental part of their theology. This is too big a subject to tackle here. Suffice it to say, we believe the "lost ten tribes" are the U.S., British peoples, and the nations of northwest Europe. There is much Biblical and secular evidence. You can read about it in our FREE booklet (more than 160 pages), The U.S. and Britain in Prophesy. Our magazines and booklets are REALLY FREE. We NEVER ask you to give money, to support us or join us. We don't harass you with followup letters. We don't send people to visit you. We don't sell or give away our mailing list. Try us. Send to: Herbert W. Armstrong Pasadena, Calif. 91123 or call 1-800-423-4444 toll free. -------------------- I said before I would comment on the takeover of the Church by the State of California. We published a booklet on the takeover in 1979, I don't know if it's still in print. It is/was called "The First Amendment - State vs. Church". Following are some introductory comments Mr. Armstrong wrote for that booklet: "On January 3rd, 1979, without the legally required prior notice or warning, an armed task force swooped down in a massive surprise attack, in utter violation of the Constitution of the United States, on the headquarters complex of the Worldwide Church of God, Ambassador College, the PLAIN TRUTH and other publications, and the Ambassador International Cultural Foundation in Pasadena California. "It illegally and forcibly assaulted, seized possession of and took over control of this long-established Church, College, publications, and Foundation. "The California Attorney General has launched a major assault on First Amendment freedoms by actually claiming that all assets of churches are public property and all monies they collect are held in public trust subject to government review and supervision. "If he is permitted to succeed in his actions, no records of churches will be exempt from his examination, and no church will be safe from government intrusion and interference. And one of the foundational precepts of American freedom - the separation of church and state and individual religious liberty - will be ended. "The case is JUST THAT SERIOUS! Many old and established churches - including the National Council of Churches, the Methodist Church, the Baptist Church, the Roman Catholic and others have prepared strongly-worded protests and legal petitions, sent to the California Supreme Court. Such established an powerful church bodies have doctrinal differences from us, and from one another - BUT THEY SERIOUSLY REALIZE THAT THEIR RIGHT TO EXIST IS ALSO THREATENED in this state government action to TAKE OVER AND OPERATE the Worldwide Church of God and its affiliated corporate organizations mentioned above. They know it is a threat to then as well." We never doubted we would win, but the church was almost bankrupt before the action was dropped. The whole takeover, and some of the incredible statements by judges, lawyers, and the Attorney General (who is now the Governer of California) are amazing. I hope the booklet is still in print. Example: Rafael Chodos, the attorney who instigated the takeover, and who was also appointed Deputy Receiver and Deputy Attorney General!!!!!!, said: "The Receiver owns all the property, assets and records of the ... Church ... college and ... foundation ... [and] the law gives him the right to do with them as he sees fit." I will try to answer any questions you have. John Rutis